Isaac P. wants to know
“I’m fascinated by the ‘every publisher launches a superhero universe’ era of the 90’s that brought us the Ultraverse, Comics Greatest World, & the like. Is there one of these that you, as a reader, wish had been a success? Alternatively, are there any particular memories of this era that stick out to you from the sales side of things?”
I will tell you the one big memory I have of this particular period in the comics industry history. It’s probably one I’ve mentioned before, but it’s well worth repeating.
I very strongly recall getting in the new copy of the Diamond Previews catalog, which features Dark Horse’s “Comics’ Greatest World” on the cover, ballyhooing the arrival of A New Superhero Universe™!
Courtesy the folks over at the Longbox Heroes podcast, here is a scan of that Previews cover from April 1993:
And as you may be able to see, there’s a split down the center, where you could swing open those parts of the cover and reveal the Comics’ Greatest World gang lurking within:
Which is all well and good, but 30+ years later, I can still remember the thoughts I had upon seeing this cover. I thought about all the other Superhero Universes and such that were coming into existence around this time, and I thought of Dark Horse’s entry into that already-burgeoning playing field, and I wondered “how do they expect comic readers to pay for all these New Universes?”
And that was the real problem. Here’s Valiant, here’s Ultraverse, here’s Comics’ Greatest World, here’s…I don’t know, Triumphant, here’s that other shared superhero universe Malibu was doing aside from Ultraverse, and then there’s DC and Marvel of course, and probably more I’m not thinking of at the moment.
It was just too much…new comic readers weren’t suddenly going to appear from nowhere to read all these comics, especially during a market downturn. The fans that already comprised comic book readership were either going to have to cough up more money to buy additional books, or they’d have to drop other books to make room for some of these new titles. It wasn’t a huge growth move for the industry, it was more a lateral move.
You know how there was a huge push to make shared universe movies after Marvel’s success with that strategy, only for several studios to find out that it wasn’t quite as easy as all that? (And that even Marvel isn’t finding it so easy lately?) What’s going on in the comic book industry about this time is sort of similar to that, except 1) publishers had a slightly better hit rate, and 2) there was a whole lot less money at stake.
The rise and fall of the Superhero Universe in comics was enough of a thing for the Overstreet Price Guide to release a side-guide a few years back, the Overstreet Price Guide to Lost Universes. And as you can see at the link, it doesn’t just concern itself with ’90s efforts, as it includes the ’70s Seaboard/Atlas books…though, were they in a shared universe? I can’t recall any crossovers there. Anyway, I think I actually grabbed a copy of this for myself, so I’m going to try to dig that out and give it a once-through before I continue here.
Yes indeedy, this is going to be a two-parter, at least. I kinda want to spend some time with some of these departed Universes and not rush through ’em at the end of this post, so I hope you forgive the cliffhanger.
“How do they expect comic readers to pay for all these New Universes?”
Regular reminder that the successful, long-running ‘hero-verses’ of DC and Marvel are the publishing *exception*, not the norm, and were as much the product of fortuitous historical circumstances as all the talents involved.
I happen to be in the midst of a re-read of “Malibu’s Other Shared Universe,” aka PROTECTORS aka GENESIS aka THE ONE WHERE PEOPLE REMEMBER THE COVER GIMMICK AND NOTHING ELSE.
As I recall, the big hype surrounding the Ultraverse was the focus on the talent involved, as opposed to “look at all these cool characters.” An attempt to copy what made Image work.
I’m struck by the fact that I can only name three of those characters.
Decades later, and given the differences in money that comics make vs movies can make, I wonder: Was getting one movie out of the effort (Barb Wire), worth whatever money Dark Horse put into developing that universe…?
Chris G-Wasn’t Ultraverse’s hype around the talent more about having competent creators working on their titles rather than the “hottest” artists like Image?
They had some very talented creators working on Ultraverse books: Steve Gerber, Barry Windsor-Smith, Steve Englehart, Marv Wolfman, I think Jim Starlin did something there…but they were old pros by the ‘90s.
Caleb-Barb Wire lost a ton of money at the box office, so probably not. I think it had a budget of $9 million and only grossed a bit over $3 million.
Durn it! I was really hoping that the Previews cover was a fold-in like the back cover of MAD magazine like Al Jeffie used to do.
Well, I guess I’ll write my own
COMIC RETAILER ECONOMICS
GREATLY ATTEST
WOEFULLY DREAMWORLD
BEAR MARKET MARGINS
NEGATIVE CASH FLOW
And then Comics Greatest World got revived for a couple years a decade ago as Project Black Sky.
And who could forget, besides everybody, Bill Jemas’s Double Take universe that was based on Night of the Living Dead and premiered with 10(!) comic series and was supposed to lead into a fifty-years-later superhero universe that they were already planning movies around (I kid you not, “Z-Men”.)
Ah, good times, good times.
IN my opinion, the best one out of that early 90s era of new universes was Milestone, which is often overlooked in these discussions – maybe because they had a deal with DC? Impact (with the MLJ superheroes) was also an interesting example of this, preceding Image as it did.
Does the Alan Moore series 1963 count as an example of a new universe?
I’m going to say no to 1963. Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Steve Ditko kind of already created that shared universe.
America’s Best Comics would count, but that wasn’t in the early-‘90s.
I’m not sure that Milestone would count as a “lost universe” since it was eventually folded into the DCU, and the characters from Milestone are being published by DC Comics. It probably did have the highest quality of any of the early-‘90s new universes (Steve Gerber’s Sludge at Malibu gets a special mention but that was only one series).
Although the ‘Barb Wire’ comic and movie were nothing special, the former was an ideal project for Adam Warren’s babes-and-tech art and Pamela Anderson was perfectly cast in the latter.
Your obligatory reminder that Ghost is pretty good and been written up a bit in academic books on superheroes.
Of all those characters, Ghost certainly has the best visual design (meaning: least ’90s). Although still insistently focused on her cleavage, unfortunately.
But some of those others are like Dark Horse knockoffs of Image knockoffs: Spawn Magneto, Angry Superman, and Boring Mr. Sinister being the worst offenders.
Also, if you’re a Frankenstein, don’t have big tubes sticking out of your head. Someone’s going to grab those right away.
I think doing a rundown on a bunch of non-Big Two publishers who created superhero universes from the Silver Age on could be a cool topic.
For that matter, trying to tackle every non-DC or Timely/Marvel publisher from the Golden Age who created superhero universes would be fascinating–but their numbers were legion: Centaur Publications, Fox Feature Syndicate, Fawcett Comics, Quality Comics, MLJ/Archie Comics, Harvey Comics, Lev Gleason Publications, Nedor Comics, Holyoke Publishing, Ace Comics, Ajax/Farrell, Crestwood Publications/Prize Comics, Charlton Comics, Columbia Comics, Fiction House, Avon, Dell Comics, and Hillman Periodicals would be among some of the Golden Age publishers who had shared superhero universes back in the Golden Age to the extent that some of their characters sometimes crossed over into stories of their other characters, or a bunch of their characters would sometimes be featured together on various covers, but there weren’t all that many Golden Age superhero teams a la DC’s Justice Society of America or Marvel’s All-Winners Squad. It was more like The Shield and The Wizard teaming up sometimes for adventures in MLJ Comics stories, or Captain Marvel Junior, Bulletman, Bulletgirl, and Minute-Man having a few adventures together as The Crime Crusaders Club–and of course The Marvel Family having adventures together in Fawcett Comics.
Below is a link to a list of all the Golden Age publishers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Golden_Age_comics_publishers
As far as non-DC-or-Marvel Silver Age publishers with shared superhero universes, the main ones which come to mind are:
1. Gold Key Comics
Turok, Solar, Magnus Robot Fighter, Dr. Spektor, The Owl, Mighty Samson, Dagar the Invincible, etc. I believe that Don Glut wrote a few stories where Dr. Spektor met The Owl, and Solar.
2. Archie/Radio/Mighty Comics
Archie Comic had Joe Simon and Jack Kirby create a different Shield character, and The Fly; and Robert Bernstein and John Rosenberger create The Jaguar. Also, some of the MLJ Golden Age characters were revived for a handful of years in campy stories by Jerry Siegel and Paul Reinman.
3. Charlton Comics
The Charlton Action Heroes: Blue Beetle, Captain Atom, The Question, Peacemaker, Nightshade, Peter Cannon Thunderbolt, Judo Master, etc.–all later acquired by DC (except for Peter Cannon) and famously leading to the creation of Watchmen.
4. Tower Comics
The T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents (Dynamo, No-Man, Menthor, Lightning, Raven), and U.N.D.E.R.S.E.A. Agent (Davey Jones)–helmed by the late, great Wally Wood. This was a Silver Age comics company that actually put out some well drawn and humorous stories by Wood, Dan Adkins, Gil Kane, Steve Ditko, Chic Stone, Ogden Whitney, Reed Crandall, etc. Although, some of the Cold War era depictions and negative stereotypes found in a few of the stories have not aged well–but then, the same thing can be said for early ’60s Iron Man Stories.
5. Harvey Comics
For some reason they didn’t revive most of their Golden Age characters, such as Shock Gibson, Captain Freedom, or Pat Parker–although some G.A. Black Cat stories were reprinted in the silver Age; as well as licensed The Spirit stories by Will Eisner; and Atomic Age Fighting American stories by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby.
Instead, Joe Simon, hired as an editor, came up with or oversaw the creation of some fairly bizarre characters for Harvey: Bee-Man, Jigsaw – Man of a Thousand Parts, Spyman, Pirana, and Tiger Boy. Other “Harvey Thriller” Silver Age superheroes included: Glowing Gladiator, Sooper Hippie, Jack Q. Frost, Magic Master, Miracles Inc., Fruitman, Captain Flower, and Man in Black. They all faded away after a few appearances.
6. Dell Comics
At the very least, Silver Age Dell Comics had its wild superhero/monster crossover characters during the Silver Age: Dracula, Frankenstein, and Werewolf.
And Dell also had the Fab 4–which was Dell’s attempt at a Teen Titans or X-Men-type adolescent group. They were four teens whose minds could be transferred to android bodies: El (he has Cyclops-like powers and fires lasers from his eyes), Polymer Polly (she can fly, run fast, and generate a polyfilament fiber to bind her foes), Hy (he can produce sonic waves a la Banshee), and Crispy (he can freeze things, like Iceman or Captain Cold).
7. M.F. Enterprises
The “Split!” android Captain Marvel created by Carl Burgos–who also created the Golden Age android Human Torch for Timely, and the android hero Iron Skull for Centaur Publications–I guess Burgos was into androids! The Terrible 5 ( Dr. Fate, Tinyman, Elasticman, Atom-Jaw, and Dr. Doom) also existed at this comics company–so there was a bureoning, or “Burgos-ing,” superhero universe there. I’m guessing that DC and Marvel shut this company down due to characters being named “Dr. Fate,” “Dr. Doom,” and “Captain Marvel.”
That’s all I got for Silver Age Non-Dc/Marvel superhero universes–but if anyone else knows of other ones, feel free to add to the mix.
As far as the Bronze Age non-Big Two publishers with superhero universes goes, I would think that the short lived Skywald Publications might be the starting point.
They had a few superheroes, including Hell-Rider created by Gary Friedrich (before he created Johnny Blaze, Ghost Rider), and Butterfly–the first African American superheroine. They also had the revival of the Heap–a muck monster originally appearing in Golden Age Airboy Comics. They also had a jungle barbarian character, Zangar, by the late, great Jack Katz. Additionally, Skywald reprinted some Jack Kirby Bullseye stories, some Red Mask stories, and some Sheena Queen of the Jungle stories–so, I think that would qualify Skywald as having a (small) superhero universe.
And then, a few years after Skywald folded, there was Atlas/Seabord Comics. What is interesting is that Marvel’s production manager, Sol Brodsky, had been a co-publisher of Skywald (along with Israel Waldman, who had I.W. Publications/Super Comics, and had published unauthorized reprints of Golden Age comics stories during the early Silver Age), and Martin Goodman, Marvel’s ex-Publisher, became the publisher of Atlas/Seaboard. So, in both cases, you had high ranking Marvel people attempting new companies, and bringing over talent from Marvel with them.
But, to Mike’s point, maybe if Martin Goodman had hired Archie Goodwin, or Gerry Conway, or Len Wein, or Marv Wolfman as the editor for the Atlas/Seaboard books, there might have been more success. It seems like it would have been a no-brainer to have some of the characters start crossing over in other characters’
books right away by issue no. 2 to build a shared universe a la Marvel–or had an “Atlas/Seaboard Team-Up” title with Tiger-Man and The Destructor in the first issue, Demon Hunter and Devilina in the second issue, etc.
Also, considering that Martin Goodman either licensed or outright bought the rights to Tower Comics’ Tippy Teen and repacked the character as Vicki, which ran for four issues, I don’t see why he didn’t just license or buy the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents from Tower Comics as well–unless he tried to, but the price was too high. I mean, Goodman had Wally Wood inking Steve Ditko’s pencils on The Destructor, so imagine if he had acquired the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents and got Wood and Ditko working on those characters again–maybe Atlas/Seaboard would have lasted longer.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120522000853/http://www.atlasarchives.com/index.html
I also think it would have been cool, if Pacific Comics had lasted longer, and if various creators had agreed, to have had a crossover limited series that featured Jack Kirby’s Captain Victory, and Silver Star, Steve Ditko’s Missing Man, Neal Adams’s Ms. Mystic, Mike Grell’s Starslayer, Jim Starlin’s Darklon the Mystic, Gray Morrow’s Edge of Chaos characters, John Byrne’s Rog-2000, Will Meugniot’s Vanity, Dave Stevens’s Aurora (I wouldn’t suggest The Rocketeer, as I think he works best in the late ’30s/ early ’40s in his own universe) etc.
And, at least Eclipse Comics had its big crossover event, “Total Eclipse,” for better or worse.
And I recall over at Comico that the Justice Machine and The Elementals crossed over.
I do think that one the ’80s superhero universe which is often overlooked is the Red Circle Comics revival of the MLJ/Archie Comics superhero characters. I think Rich Buckler knocked it out of the park with the first few issues of Mighty Crusaders, The Fly, Blue Ribbon Comics, Black Hood, and Lancelot Strong, The Shield. Those issues have some great art by Buckler, Frank Giacoia, Steranko, Steve Ditko, James Sherman, Trevor Von Eeden, Rudy Nebres, Alex Nino, Alex Toth, Gray Morrow, Alan Weiss, etc. I think the Red Circle iteration is much better than DC’s subsequent revamping of the characters in Impact Comics, or other recent iterations of the characters.
I also think the JC Comics revival of the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents is underrated. Although it only lasted a few issues, it managed to capture the essence of the Wally Wood, while moving the setting from the late ’60s to the early ’80s. And, I have read that at one time in the early ’80s there was supposed to be a crossover between the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents and the Mighty Crusaders. It is a pity that it never got published.
I have picked up copies of the Malibu Comics The Protectors run from dollar boxes from time to time. I do like that they basically revived a bunch of public domain Centaur Publications characters from the Golden Age: Airman, Arrow, Amazing Man, Man of War, Iron Skull, etc. Although, the Malibu Comics redesign of The Ferret is really the epitome of ’90s bad taste.
Here’s what the Golden Age Centaur Publications Ferret looked like–I dig it!
https://fourcolorglasses.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/are-you-wearing-a-mask-or-did-a-rodent-die-on-your-head-man-of-war-comics-2-january-1942/
Personally, my favorite of those “Lost” universes is the Acclaim version of the Valiant heroes. They got some of the best writers of the time (Kurt Busiek, Mark Waid, Fabian Nicieza, and others) to launch the titles, and it worked so well. The original run of Quantum & Woody also took place there, but it was the least tied into the continuity of that universe (though not completely separate).
Personally, my favorite of those “Lost” universes is the Acclaim version of the Valiant heroes. They got some of the best writers of the time (Kurt Busiek, Mark Waid, Fabian Nicieza, and others) to launch the titles, and it worked so well. The original run of Quantum & Woody also took place there, but it was the least tied into the continuity of that universe (though not completely separate).
Whoops. Double posted by accident. Feel free to delete one of those above, Mike.
And this, if you don’t mind…
Chris V – yes, that’s what I meant. Like Image, Ultraverse was focused more on the creators than the characters. The other “lost universes” were banking on the characters alone, and as Thom H mentioned, the characters were largely generic knockoffs of knockoffs.
Valiant started out as a way of creating a single shared universe with interesting characters, but as Mike pointed out today, kind of fell apart after Shooter’s ousting.
I was curious enough to try out all the big ones aside from Valiant. Some of them even kept my attention for 5 or 6 months. But indeed it was the almighty dollar that kept me from following any of them for too long given my already existing Marvel habit.
would the Classics Illustrated line count as a universe?