Loureedrichards stretches in to street hassle me with
“The post on war comics and the reaction to it was interesting. Several people mentioned not being interested in war comics when they were younger, but they now have a greater affinity for them. I felt much the same way and now find I am as interested in war, horror, romance, and funny animal comics as I am in superhero comics. That may partly be due to the histories of those genres and many of the creators not being covered quite as extensively.
“Is there much demand for any of those genres outside of the EC titles (obviously) and something like early romance comics by Simon and Kirby? Is there a large Fox and Crow or Jerry Lewis fandom that I’m not hip to? If so, could you hip me to them so I’m not stuck out here in squaresville daddy-o?”
Look, I’m tuned in to your scene, Kookie, and it’s the absolute end! Honestly, when it comes to the war comics, or really any genre outside of superheroes, it may just be that they were overlooked when you were at the stands picking out your regular faves. The war books may have looked more “mature” or “serious” to you at a young age, and thus didn’t appeal. Which isn’t to say there weren’t some seven-year-olds out there desperately waiting each new issue of G.I. Combat, because obviously there had to be some, or the series wouldn’t have lasted as long as it did.
It may be a self-fulfilling prophecy from the publishers, too…”our war books don’t sell as well as the superhero books, so we’ll focus our efforts on the superhero books, and hey our war book sales have dropped further still, how’d that happen, better not waste effort pushing those.”
Another aspect is availability. Comic shops carrying back issues (by which I mean the good ones, possibly even mine) can expose you to a wider variety of books outside your initial experience. As you get a little older, a little more interested in reading something other than the same ol’ same ol’, and as you maybe hopefully have a little more disposable income (a tricky assumption at this current moment), you might peruse the stacks and come away with material you’d skipped before.
And when you’re older, you might just have more of an appreciation (sincere or ironic) for the craft of the books. Maybe that war book or horror comic looked “weird” to you as a kid, but looks fascinating to you now. I’ll tell you, not long after I started working at my previous place of employment, I’d be processing stacks of old war books, and I learned quickly that some, especially Sgt. Rock, had perfected the Intriguing Cover™. Each one set up a situation that was so mind-bogglingly compelling that you had to look inside and see what was going on. It was the ol’ “things that always work on covers” list (usually attributed to Carmine Infantino, but apparently actually from former DC honcho Irwin Donenfeld) but turned up to eleven. Or fifteen.
I mean, what the hell, dude.
Like I said above, this isn’t everyone‘s story. Some people read a lot of comics that weren’t superheroes as a kid, and just never made the move over. Or some, like me, were reading a lot of Disney and other kids comics in the ’70s, got roped into Star Wars comics in ’77, was reading a lot of Mad Magazine during this period, and occasionally read superhero comics as well. So, I was getting a good mix of stuff, but it helped that there was a good mix of stuff on the stands for me to get. As superheroes pushed other genres off the rack, the choices became increasingly limited.
Oh, and I suppose one more thing that helps people rediscover old comics they missed out on before: the internet. I hear that’s a big thing nowadays.
But anyway, yes, there is currently an enormous market for non-superhero comics of an older vintage. If I suddenly got a crate full of Golden Age romance comics, they’d be gone within a week. And that’s just from walk-ins. I’ve got people I can call who would rush right in and buy ’em by the armload. It’s no problem. And those war books I got recently…they’re selling nearly as soon as I price them, even in the condition they’re in.
“Do comic collections ever come in with superhero AND romance comics?”
Sure, all the time, if the collections are of a certain age. Granted, it’s usually 1% romance comics, 99% superheroes/other, but it’s rare when, despite my wishful thinking in the previous paragraph, that I get in a collection that’s nothing but romance. Unless you count Archie. Or Punisher, that’s kind of a romance comic if you really think about it.
“Unrelated, but are there any comics you would not sell due to ethical concerns about the content or the creators? Nothing springs to mind right off, but you have much vaster knowledge.”
The last time this was really an issue was the whole Orson Scott Card thing, which I wrote about here (warning: linkrot). And there are creators who have been involved in scandal and bad behavior which disinclines me from supporting future endeavors.
But the one line I am not crossing is carrying any Harry Potter items. It’s not likely there’ll ever be a Harry Potter comic (JKR probably thinks that’s beneath her), so it’s obviously easy to boycott that. I do, however, get inundated with offers for HP junk from my various toy/merchandise wholesalers, and man, No Huey, No News, No Thanks. I like my trans friends too much to stab ’em in the back like that.
“Just saw a video of someone being ripped off by a counterfeit Hulk #181. Obviously with your experience you could spot a fake a mile away, but I’m curious if anyone has ever tried to pull a fast one on you?”
Not that I’ve noticed. Boy, I hope none of that giant pile of Man of Steel (1986) #2 I have in the back are fakes. But, boy, with home tech advancing to the point where you can assemble a reasonable facsimile of a Hulk #181 to foist off on people? That’s a new worry unlocked.
One example I can think of was at the old shop, where we once acquired a ’60s Spider-Man toy still in the box, but that box was newly printed and we somehow missed that. I don’t believe this was nefariousness on the part of the seller, she was likely oblivious to its nature. (And I’m not trying to be mean, here…this particular person was likely not capable of either making this box or spotting it was fake. And we didn’t spot it either, so there you go.)
And I know one of our old customers got taken by some fake Jack Kirby “original” art, poor guy.
We did buy a counterfeit Cerebus #1 at the old shop once, but we knew it was a counterfeit, which is now sort of a collectible in and of itself. We bought it at the same time as a real #1, and they both sold to the same person. (Huh, I wonder if Cecil still owns those? Boy, I’d like to have ’em myself.)
“Like I said, forgive me if you’ve covered these topics before.”
Friend, you’re talking to a person who has a wildly extensive “Death of Superman” category, I ain’t afraid of repeat topics.
“It’s not likely there’ll ever be a Harry Potter comic…”
Oh, but there already was a Harry Potter comic, which I’ll refer to as ‘Mooks of Bagic’ because I don’t want to get sued ;-)
Kookie? Kookie? Lend me your comb!
“got roped into Star Wars comics in ’77,”
AND THEY WERE GLORIOUS!
“which I’ll refer to as ‘Mooks of Bagic’ because I don’t want to get sued”
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you’re right! I hadn’t thought of that before!
“Or Punisher, that’s kind of a romance comic if you really think about it.”
He loves guns more than the NRA!
“Harry Potter”
It’s just re-heated JRR Tolkien & CS Lewis, anyway. I’ll NEVER get the popularity.
AND YES, I realize my beloved Star Wars (1977) wasn’t massively original, but it was done THE EXACT RIGHT WAY in that first movie.
“Spider-Man toy still in the box, but that box was newly printed and we somehow missed that”
Someone would need a VERY good printer, high quality ink, and, of course, to get the dimensions of the cardboard right. Not the EASIEST, anyway.
“We did buy a counterfeit Cerebus #1 at the old shop once”
Back & White, cheap paper, I get why/how that one was counterfeited. I AM surprised it didn’t happen to the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, as that was also a B&W, with multiple printings, and on the (probably) cheaper paper.
As one of said trans friends (I hope!), thank you, Mike. You’re pretty awesome.
Sadly, I have to admit that it was GI Joe comics when they first started (bought a #1 new off the spinner rack at the local drug store in 1982 as a child) which drew me in to comics. From there, I branched out into Uncanny X-Men. I would have readily bought horror comics over superhero comics at the time though. It was the draw of finding out about Sauron and seeing a giant N’Garai demon on covers of X-Men that drew me to the X-Men series as my first, honestly. It made me think of X-Men as characters who might feature a lot of monsters in their stories.
You couldn’t find any monster comics on the spinner racks by the ‘80s, but when I first came across the reprints of Marvel’s old horror and monster books from the ‘70s, then later Conan (often featuring monsters on the covers), I bought those as fast as I could find them.
Question time: do comic collections ever come in with superhero AND romance comics?
Dear god. You weren’t kidding about the Punisher Armory comic. I had heard of the title. I thought it was one of those one-shot Handbook issues. The damn thing is ten issues. I love how the first issue has a blurb on the cover: “The Punisher, his thoughts, his feelings”. I am expecting that Frank does get pretty sexually explicit about his weapons.
Glad to hear you’re refusing to stock HP products. Good job!
Who loves his weapons more, Frank Castle or Duke Togo (aka the long-running manga hitman ‘Golgo 13’)?
Not that I think they should exist, but I’ve always wondered why there are no Harry Potter comics.
I was a latecomer to appreciating Western, romance, and Archie comics.
But I have never been able to get into war comics. Even the EC stuff and Blazing Combat do nothing for me, except admiring the art.
I wonder to what extent the history of American war comics has been documented or if there are comic book historians who have published–or plan to publish in the near future–any books on that subject, examining the work of masters including Simon & Kirby, Frank Frazetta, Alex Toth, Harvey Kurtzman, Wally Wood, Joe Kubert, and Russ Heath?
For me, reading The Steranko History of Comics, All in Color for a Dime, and Comix: A History of Comic Books in America when I was a young lad helped broaden my understanding of the history of comics, some of the major talents in the industry during the Golden through Silver Ages, and the (former) existence of many diverse genres. I think it is a pity that so many genres faded away pretty much by the early ’80s.
ut I think that some of the EC war comics written by Harvey Kurtzman (and often drawn by Wally Wood)
There is definitely a booming buyer’s market for Golden Age/Atomic Age Romance and GGA Humor comics (including Patsy Walker, Millie the Model, Sunny, etc.)–especially if Matt Baker art, Dan DeCarlo art or Al Feldstein art appears in them. Same thing applies for Golden Age/Atomic Age Archie comics–and even some Silver and Bronze Age Archie comics with innuendo covers; sometimes it’s pretty amazing that this stuff got approved by the Comics Code Authority.
There is also a buyer’s market for Fiction House Comics, especially Planet Comics, and Jumbo Comics featuring Sheena–but also including the war-related titles Wings Comics and Fight Comics, which have some provocative and outlandish covers by Joe Doolin, Maurice Whitman, Lily Renee, and other Golden Age greats.
I would say that Funny Animals and Westerns are probably among the most niche markets these days and a lot of them sell fairly cheaply unless they feature key first appearances of characters. One exception regarding Westerns might be Cowgirl Romances (Fiction House), and Cow Puncher Comics (Avon), which are sought after because they feature a lot of GGA –or BGA–covers.
And, of course, Atomic Age Crime Comics and Pre-Code Horror Comics continue to sell like gangbusters. And not just EC’s. A lot of people want Harvey, Fawcett, and ACG Pre-Code Horror Comics, or L.B. Cole Pre-Code Horror Comics.
Joining in on Mike’s comment regarding that well-crafted Joe Kubert Sgt. Rock cover, designed to actually get the readers to buy the book, that’s a big issue I have with many, many modern comics currently being published by Marvel, DC and other companies. A plethora of boring covers or “cutesy” selfie covers or 20 different variant pin-up covers which are still often uninspired covers which don’t have anything to do with hooking the reader to want to read the story inside. But, I’m also very critical of decompressed storytelling. Bring back exciting comics–with cover blurbs and word balloons!
It would be interesting to know when the sales for war comics really began to tank. Maybe during the Vietnam War, as it was such an unpopular war? But I would think war comics with stories set during WW II probably had a good 30 year run, just as WW II-based war movies had a 30 year run–up until about “The Big Red One” directed by Sam Fuller. Many of these WWII vets who went into comics, TV, and films probably experienced PTSD (that they were working through via the comics TV shows and films they produced) for the rest of their lives, sadly. Then, imagine all the Boomer boys (and some girls) reading all of the Atomic and Silver Age War comics during the ’50s and ’60s, trying to grasp what it had all been about. Or, think about the American kids reading war comics who had dads, uncles, older brothers, or grandfathers who died in the War, who tried to abstractly overcome that loss by reading about Sgt. Rock and Easy Company. Or creators, including Dave Cockrum, Mike Grell, Doug Murray, and Larry Hama, who probably read war comics in their youth, then went into the military during the Vietnam War, and later became comic book legends.
@ Daniel T
To each their own, but I think that some of the EC War comics written by Harvey Kurtzman (and often illustrated by Wally Wood) are among the best comics ever produced in any genre. “Big ‘If’! ” published in Frontline Combat no. 5, March 1952 is one such story.
https://fromdusktilldrawnblog.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/big-if-by-harvey-kurtzman-us-1952/
This is my happening and it’s freaking me out!
Thanks Mike!
Glad to know that the war, romance, and other genre books sell so well. I thought they might have their admirers, but I’m happily surprised to find they are so popular. I know I definitely passed them over in back in the day. When I first started getting into comics one of my small group of neighborhood comic collecting buddies always tried to pawn off Sgt. Rock and some G.I Combats during our trades. Even at 12 we were like “get that crap outta here.”
I only have a handful of war comics in my collection now and most of those were bought specifically for the Toth stories. The talent that worked on these books though – wow! Sgt. Rock Special #8 from ’90 has reprints of work by Toth, Joe Kubert, Neal Adams, Bernie Krigstein, AND Sergio Aragonés! That is a murderers’ row of talent if ever there was one.
And as others have said thank you for having the moral fibre to stand up for the trans community. I’m sure you could make some money selling HP merch, but y’know “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?” and all that stuff.
FWIW: the deplorable state of trans rights and other marginalized groups, esp. here in the deep South, was a major influence on my decision to make a mid-life career change and go back to school to study social work. I’m currently in graduate school* so I definitely don’t have a lot of disposable income for comics – but that’s ok, the “struggle” is worth it.
And one final thing – since you mentioned it I hope it’s ok to share a link to Lou Reed Live Take No Prisoners version of Street Hassle. It’s the best song (AND trans positive, if somewhat blue) on IMHO his best album. A true classic, even if one of the other songs hasn’t aged quite so well.
https://youtu.be/eyhCrfRNGEA?si=TaG8uZFWXvyp9Ob5
I realize you don’t like a lot of links dropped in the comments – so if you take it out, I totally understand.
Thanks again!
*Yes, I’m working on a master’s degree even if my misspelling and punctuation error riddled posts indicate otherwise.
“Who loves his weapons more, Frank Castle or Duke Togo (aka the long-running manga hitman ‘Golgo 13’)?”
Frank, and I don’t even need to think about it.
” Maybe during the Vietnam War, as it was such an unpopular war?”
I believe that IS a factor. People could see parts of that war on their TV every day, something not possible during WW2.
“up until about “The Big Red One” directed by Sam Fuller”
Apparently, some people mistook that movie for porn, because of the title.
Another question: do comic collections ever come in with superhero AND romance comics?