I’m not sure what my actual first issue of Fantastic Four was. I know I certainly encountered it as a younger child, having the vague memory of reading a 1970s-era issue at my cousin’s house. I know I definitely read (and owned) a copy of Marvel Two-in-One #18 when it was new, or close to, so that was very likely my introduction to the delicate sensibilities of a certain Mr. Grimm.
Eventually I would encounter the Origins of Marvel Comics paperback in the local library, possibly in the late-ish ’70s, which not only gave me my crash course on what the FF were about, but got me up to speed on several other Marvel characters to boot.
When I was reading comics in the ’70s, while I did get a superhero comic from time to time (like the aforementioned lightly-terrifying issue of Marvel Two-in-One), I mostly gravitated towards other topics. I read Disney comics, I enjoyed Pink Panther, I’d get the occasional sci-fi or horror comic somehow (like this comic with a worrisome sci-fi story from Denny O’Neil and Tom Sutton), that sort of thing. When I did get superhero comics, I primarily angled myself at DC’s characters.
Obviously, if you’ve been following my site for any period of time, you can guess that an early DC fave was Swamp Thing. I also got the occasional Superman or Green Lantern comic, or that one Superboy giant with the Legion of Super-Heroes. Oh, and all the digest reprints, and so on and so forth.
I would get the occasional Marvel superhero book, and even had a brief subscription to Amazing Spider-Man around issue #200, to fill out the rest of my subscription to Pizazz, which had been cancelled shortly after I started getting them in the mail. But I wasn’t a regular follower of any of them…mostly it would just be one issue here and there, if I had a particular need to read a new comic and I already had all the DCs I wanted from the latest shipments to the newsstands.
It was sometime in ’83 when I started making a more concentrated effort to follow certain Marvel titles, like Incredible Hulk, or Uncanny X-Men. But I remembered liking the Thing from those long-ago comics I read in the ’70s, and picked up a copy of this:
Given that my first issue of Incredible Hulk also featured the title character fighting other superheroes, maybe there was a specific attraction about such an event that attracted me to those issues. Regardless, I enjoyed this comic quite a bit, having a definitely different look ‘n’ feel from the DCs I’d been buying, and kept on buying more Marvels.
It’s not like Marvel replaced DC in my comic buying habits. I still predominately bought DC superhero comics. But I made room in my budget for more Marvel titles, including, eventually, Fantastic Four.
It was also about this time I started to discover that most peculiar of retail outlets, the “comic book store.” My first visit to one was well out of town, a place called Comic Book Nook in Simi Valley, which I’d found out about via a newspaper ad with a couple for so-and-so off the price of a back issue. However, a schoolmate of mine clued me into a place by the name of “Ralph’s Comic Corner” in the much closer city of Ventura, which is where, in short order, the greater percentage of my comics custom would be applied. (And I would also get a job there a few years later, leading to where I’m at now, but that’s another story.)
It was at Ralph’s where I could not only get the new comics usually a week or two ahead of the newsstands, but I could also delve deep into the back issues and fill in holes in my reading, picking up comics I long ago missed on the newsstands, or filling in runs of newer comics I’d just started. Like, you know, a lot of those Marvel comics that I just started picking up, which, unlike many of their DC counterparts, were a little more continuity-focused with more ongoing subplots and such. Reading the past history could often enhance the experience future stories, versus a Superman story that would exist in a vacuum separate from other Superman stories, and certainly other DC comics.
So I don’t recall where I started, exactly, with John Byrne’s run on the Fantastic Four from this period, but I absolutely used my access to the comic shop’s back issue bins to work my way back to the beginning of his stint on the title. That may very well be the first time I did such a thing with a comic book series I was following…not just going back a couple of issues to get the start of the current storyline, or working my way back to an actual #1, but liking a creator’s work on a specific title enough to get all the issues that creator did.
And reading that run of Fantastic Four started me on an on-again/off-again journey of reading that title, one that continues to even now and the great work being done by Ryan North and Humberto Ramos. But before I get to there, I’m going to start back here, and talk about what it was that grabbed my attention about Byrne’s tenure on Fantastic Four. And after that, what did and did not keep me following Marvel’s First Family over the succeeding decades.
This will be an intermittent series of entries on this site, probably at least one a week. I certainly hope you follow along, and I look forward to your comments on your favorite FF stories and why you read, or maybe didn’t read, the title.
My first FF issues were two from the Marv Wolfman 70s run that I bought at a garage sale. They were relatively new, but already beat up.
I think I’d seen the cartoon with HERBIE, so I was fascinated by the Human Torch.
I don’t think I read any Fantastic Four comics until I was an adult, or in my 20s anyway if that counts as “adult”. I remember that FF was one of the comics that the local drug store regularly carried on their spinner racks, this would have been during the Byrne run, but I was there to buy Uncanny X-Men each month. I do remember looking at the covers on the FF issues and being tempted. I did come across the Official Marvel Index to the Fantastic Four when I first ventured into the world of the comic specialty store, and I decided I needed to buy those to see what I had missed.
I do think the John Byrne issues were the first FF comics I bought as back-issues after I had more spending money and during a period where I was trying to hunt down the work of creative teams considered definitive on each Marvel book. I liked the Byrne run enough to decide I wanted to collect the Fantastic Four series, going back to Lee/Kirby and Gerry Conway issues. I also began to buy the current issues which was featuring another now-classic, the Mark Waid run.
My introduction to the Fantastic Four was in an issue I can’t find online. And I don’t remember how I got it. Maybe in one of those 3-packs from Target?
In any case, it was pre-Byrne, the team was in outer space, and they met the Kree Supreme Intelligence at one point. I didn’t like it, and I got rid of it pretty quickly.
My next issue was Fantastic Four #247, and I was immediately hooked by the (relatively) nuanced Doctor Doom/Latveria story. And the art was so good!
Like many other people at the time, it seems, I went back and bought up as many Byrne written and drawn issues as I could afford. Mostly at the flea market, which reliably had three great comic book booths.
I can’t remember if I already knew Byrne had been on Uncanny X-Men previously. If not, I must have found out pretty quickly. And then a year-ish later, he was writing and drawing a book called Alpha Flight, and they had also been in Uncanny? Mind blown.
The first issue I had was Fantastic Four #206. It was published many years before I learned how to read, and I also had Captain America #233 (published the same month) and an issue of what must’ve been The Defenders based on the characters I can remember seeing (Namor’s winged feet and Hellstrom’s symbol), and because they were the only comics I had, I’ve always assumed that the three comics came from one of those three-pack sets. The most notable, uh, thing about the issue from an introductory standpoint is that the Human Torch does not appear in it.
The first issue I bought new was Fantastic Four #293. This was Byrne’s last issue, but being a new reader, his name didn’t mean anything to me other than he was the guy also doing The Hulk and the covers for the Marvel Universe Handbook at the time, all of which abruptly changed at once. As this coincided with my becoming a comic book fan and learning about comic book stores, when I did pick up FF back issues, they were always from the Byrne run.
First Lee/Kirby was a black and white pocket paperback which, I think, printed all the panels sideways. I can’t remember what stories were printed in the book aside from the origin, first Sub-Mariner, and Impossible Man stories, but it did leave me with a soft spot for Impy.
I do have the whole run of Lee/Kirby in the Epic Collection series, which I intend to read someday.
The first FF book I had, briefly, was issue 239. My parents bought my older sister and me three comics: an issue of Hulk for me, an issue of Spider-Man for my sister, and an issue of FF for us to share. I don’t remember what happened exactly- I know I got to look through it because I remembered some of the contents years later when I came across it when buying back issues- but my sister and I ended up fighting over the comic, and it got ripped in half. My parents didn’t buy us any more comics after that.
My first FF was 235, part two of a story involving Ego. But more importantly, my second was 236, which was a double-sized anniversary issue featuring Doctor Doom and a cover I’ll always remember. I was hooked from that point on.
Not sure why I decided FF would be my first foray into regular comic buying, aside from liking The Thing. I’ve never understood why I didn’t start with Spider-Man, who I’d watched in cartoons my whole life.
As I’ve probably mentioned on this site several times, my first issue was #278. I picked it up because of the She-Hulk and Dr. Doom, both of whom I had enjoyed in Secret Wars. It also had a cool mini origin recap for Doom. I fell in love with Byrne’s artwork, particularly his beautiful rendering of the She-Hulk. The Baxter Building blows up at the end of the issue, which I now think was a huge mistake, but oh well.
The Psycho-Man, Hate Monger, and Malice subplot starts in this issue. There’s troubling racial slurs used in the issue, which as a kid born and raised in Alabama I had unfortunately heard many times in casual conversation. Sadly this only added to the sense of realism for me. Hell, at least here they were clearly portrayed as the villains!
All in all a great introductory issue! After that I was hooked, and started picking up any Byrne back issues I could find at the musty and slightly creepy used book/comic book store in town. I have the complete Byrne run, and particularly enjoy #240-264. I also bought the Byrne poster that featured all of Jack and Stan’s FF character’s. It has hung almost continuously for 40 years now (damn I feel old.)
I also started getting 70’s back issues whenever I could. They were often in the cheap bins in the late 80’s, early 90’s. They were so cheap and plentiful that I took issues (and some Kamandi issues!!!) apart, spray mounted them onto poster board, and decorated an entire wall with them in my friends college apartment.
FF #236 is an awesome issue. One of the all-time great giant-size anniversary issues in my opinion.
I also had the Byrne FF poster! And the New Mutants poster by Sienkiewicz. Both so good.
I was also more of a DC kid in the 1970s, but FF was one Marvel book I was always curious about and would try occasionally. The one I remember most clearly was a Kirby reprint in MARVEL’S GREATEST COMICS, which I liked way more than the contemporary stuff.
Started picking it up in the Sienkiewicz/Moench run, and liked that. Kept up when Byrne came on, enjoyed some of it, found it uneven (eventually as I read more Kirby I realized I mostly liked the stuff he cribbed from Kirby and disliked his original contributions). Gave up around the time She-Hulk joined the team.
Very rarely picked it up new off the racks again (except for brieflyl when I joined the Simonson run mid-way through, stuck around until he left, only recently finally got the rest of his early issues I was missing), though I have picked up a few back-issues (in addition to some originals and some reprints of the Kirby run). Thought Perez in the 1970s was good, Pacheco in the 1990s, Weiringo after that, McDuffie/Pelletier’s brief run. Plus I’ll always make time for any time Karl Kesel or Alan Davis work on it.
Huh! MTIO #18 was my first exposure to the FF also, followed by next month’s FF #174. Stayed until #225 (missing a handful of issues due to the vagaries of newsstand distribution.
I do not see what everyone else does in Ryan North’s run, which I have dipped into a few times. But I could be prejudiced as I absolutely H-A-T-E Johnny’s mustache to a degree I didn’t think was possible for me to care about something in a mainstream superhero comic.
After reading everyone else’s, now I feel old. My first FF off the rack was #159 with the Inhumans. From that issue forward I have purchased every one of them new upon release. And yes, some of them suck…the 1990s especially.
Starting in the mid-80s, I began filling backward and by the end of the 90s made it back to issue 25 and stopped as they were getting too pricy for me (although I made a special point to also get #12 so I had all the Thing/Hulk fights). At some point I picked up the first three Masterwork volumes to cover that gap. Looking forward to the future instalments of your saga.
My first introduction to the FF were the cartoons, specifically the Torchless version that introduced the world to the wonder of HERBIE. I also enjoyed Thing’s solo cartoon, with the “Thing Rings, Do Your Thing!” catchphrase.
My first FF comics (and actually the very first comics purchased for myself with my own money) was the “New Fantastic Four” storyline, featuring Grey Hulk, Ghost Rider, Spider-Man and Wolverine taking the FF’s place, after seeing the lineup in the Marvel Trading cards (I had a weird journey to get to the comic reader I am today).
Said comics were purchased at Ralph’s Comic Corner from none other than the Mikester himself.
I started reading the book regularly during the Infinity War saga. With much of the early story taking place at Four Freedoms Plaza, FF seemed like a necessary part of the crossover event, and I got interested in the story of Marvel’s First Family from there, pretty much sticking with them through various creative teams (other than the “Heroes Reborn” world, which I skipped entirely).
@BobH.
Agreed that those Marvel’s Greatest Comics reprints were fun reads–the bonus was when there would be new cover art by Jim Starlin or some other young, rising talent from the ’70s.
I also agree that John Byrne’s run was a mixed bag. I wasn’t a huge fan of subbing in She-Hulk for The Thing–although I did like having Wyatt Wingfoot back in the fold.
I was also never a big fan of Byrne’s redesigned costumes, as I think the Kirby costumes are great and more pragmatic looking.
@Daniel T
Yeah, I am not a big fan of seeing Johnny Storm with a mustache, goatee, or whatever. But I’m also not a big fan of seeing Reed Richards with a full beard. I think if one goes back to the roots of the Jack Kirby depictions, Reed was sometimes shown with stubble due to working in the lab for several days on end, but he was never meant to be a bearded superhero. I’m trying to think back to the early ’60s Marvel Comics, and it strikes me that only Hercules, and The Warriors Three from Asgard were bearded heroes –so, in the early Marvel days, beards were reserved for Gods and Demi-Gods. And mustaches were generally reserved for Tony Stark, Stephen Strange, Kraven, The Swordsman, and Dum Dum Dugan.
I haven’t read a FF comic in quite a long time, but it strikes me that if they wanted to build out the family aspect, they could have had Ben –during one of his “back to human” phases–and Alicia have a baby, or what if Johnny and Crystal got back together (is Crystal still married to Quicksilver now?) and had a baby? Or, Johnny and another woman could have a baby. Or have some of these things already happened and I am just unaware? I do recall the Future Foundation with Franklin, Valeria, and other offspring characters, but I don’t think I recall Ben or Johnny becoming fathers.
Ben and Alicia adopted two alien children during the Dan Slott run (which was really bad, but not due to that reason). One was a Skrull child and the other a Kree child. Reed and Sue already have two kids (Franklin and Valeria). The FF family really doesn’t need to expand any further. Most writers have trouble juggling huge casts of characters, and babies in Big Two superhero comics are always problematic, as they’ll either remain a baby forever or the creators will have to come up with an excuse to age them up (like Franklin and Valeria), so that the kids can have something to do while their parents are having adventures.
North is doing a great job balancing the Fantastic Four as both a family and a team of science explorers.
I could see Reed growing a beard at times, as he gets so engrossed in his scientific discoveries and experiments, it would be easy to see him not finding the time to even shave.
I think in the 1960s, beards became associated with Beatnik then hippie culture, and Marvel didn’t want square readers thinking that Marvel’s characters were hippies and avoiding the books.
@ Chris V
But consider the possibilities of Ben and Johnny actually becoming biological fathers as well, and having a next generation of FF legacy characters. A scenario where Ben–in temporary human form–conceives a child with Alicia, could be interesting. Perhaps the offspring would look human and have enhanced super strength, like Iron Munro or Fury over at DC, or else have the ability to mutate into a “mini-Thing,” and do its thing (without Thing rings), but phase back to human form as well? And perhaps their offspring would be a great artist like Alicia? And what if Johnny Storm had a similarly powered daughter named Torchy? Or what if their power sets were entirely new and unexpected–yet fantastic?
As to the Reed beard debate. Of course he can, and has, grown a beard–but I prefer the classic Reed look that Kirby had in mind. And I agree with you that at that time period (1960s) beards were associated more with beatniks, and the FF was a clean cut group of superheroes.
@Thom H.
Yes, #236 is awesome! A great self-contained story and set up for the awesome #246-247 story that you were fortunate enough to come on board with.
I love the FF poster, in many ways it is the defining image I think of when I think of the FF. Back in the day I loved trying to figure out who the characters were that I was not yet familiar with.
That New Mutants poster is awesome as well. Your tastes were better informed than mine. It took me several years to really appreciate Sienkiewicz. At the time Zeck and Zimelman’s Punisher posters were my decor of choice. They ARE beautifully rendered, but looking back the subject matter makes me cringe now.
@John – I’m amazed at your 50 year unbroken streak! I applaud your dedication, esp. for sticking it out in the 90’s. Man, the ups and downs you’ve witnessed on the title…
@Sean, yeah only beatniks, hippies, and esp. commies had beards in early Marvel!
And face it, whether clean shaven or bearded Reed is the coolest!
@ LouReedRichards
So, on a parallel Earth in the Marvel Multiverse, do we have a situation where the Velvet Underground was bombarded by cosmic radiation and Lou Reed became Mr. Fantastic, John Cale became The Thing, Sterling Morrison became The Human Torch, and Moe Tucker became The Invisible Girl (or would Nico become The Invisible Girl? Or maybe Medusa?)–and Andy Warhol became the Puppet Master, or The Mad Thinker?
Nice one Sean! Hah, yeah if they can do the Marvel Bullpen as the FF then why not!
Those are all good analogs. With Lou you would never know if it was him or a mind swapped Dr. Doom.
Nico would be Alicia – She and Cale had a brief “thing” together. I think Warhol would be a combo of the Puppet Master and Thinker, esp. his hair.
And the often underappreciated Doug Yule as Power Man or She-Hulk.
@LouReedRichards
Yeah…I was thinking Doug Yule could be subbed in as Power Man. Beyond Doug, wasn’t there something like 5 or 6 other dudes, including Doug’s brother, who were briefly in the VU –some only to fulfill tour obligations–in the early ’70s after John and Lou were gone? And then there was the original drummer before Moe Tucker. So, some of them would have to be Ghost Rider, Hulk, Wolverine, and Spider-Man. Or She-Hulk or Crystal or the female Thing–what was her name?
The big question is: Would Doug Yule as Power Man have the classic “Where’s my money, honey?!” quip lobbed at Dr. Doom?
Ha- yeah good call on all of that. Not to get too far off track (though it’s probably too late for that,) Doug’s brother filled in when Moe got pregnant – he’s the drummer on Loaded and The Live at Max’s Kansas City album. You’re right about the other people joining and touring with Morrison and Tucker, after they both left. Yule and Co. made the Album “Squeeze” a few years later. It is generally reviled by the purists*, but is not completely without merit, just not anywhere close to the first four (and a half) “proper” albums.
I would think of them more as “Fantastic Force” than the “New” Fantastic Four.
Not sure if he he would say that line to Doom or not. I only know if he did it would sound like a softer more melodic version of Lou’s voice.
And now you’ve got that stuck in my head!!!
Oh and the Angus MacLise era should probably be thought of as “proto-Velvets” so maybe the Challengers of the Unknown would fit best.
*Purists are generally pains in the asses anyways…
“Given that my first issue of Incredible Hulk also featured the title character fighting other superheroes, maybe there was a specific attraction about such an event that attracted me to those issues. ”
It just goes to show that, unlike DC, Marvel comics are about *forgiveness*.