So let’s get cracking on your questions, starting off with customer Sean:
“My suggestion is that you do a post on the characters which appear in the mural in the Hall of Justice in the Superman [movie] and the likelihood of James Gunn using them in future DCU films or streaming series–especially since the text prologue at the beginning of the film mentions powered heroes first appearing three hundred years ago.
“Do you think you will see a spike in people coming into your store and wanting the first appearances of The Demon Knights, El Diablo, Amazing Man, Vibe, Freedom Beast, Gunfire, or Maxwell Lord, etc.? Should we expect more facsimile editions from DC reprinting the first appearances of these mural characters (I know I would be down for Bulletman and Bulletgirl Fawcett Comics facsimile editions)? And what are the odds that James Gunn’s upcoming projects will drive up the value of more Silver and Bronze Age DC back issues which seem to have been undervalued for the past forty to sixty years?”
Okay Sean, you’re really straddling the line here of “multi-part questions” that I asked folks to avoid, but I think I can probably swing something here that won’t take me all day to answer and will hit most of your salient points.
The mural Sean is talking about, seen briefly in that new Superman film, is this one here…image found online somewhere and cut into two pieces so we can get a better look at the images here on my website:
As Sean notes, James Gunn gave us a DC Universe That Is Already in Progress, based not just on the characters actually appearing in the movie (like, there’s a whole to-do in DC’s milieu before you find yourself with a Guy Gardner, for example), but based on the opening text establishing that super-powered being had been around for centuries.
And in that mural above, on display in the Hall of Justice, presents a number of characters from DC’s past, all apparent precursors to the modern DCU that we are seeing in Superman and will see in presumably the coming movies/TV shows based in the same setting.
There are a lot of classic characters there…Sean named a bunch, and I’ve always had a soft spot for Liberty Belle, and I know pal Dorian would like to see Wildcat. I of course would love to see these characters in live action, but at best we’ll see them as supporting characters or in flashback, or they’ll be legacy characters, with someone in modern times taking on their mantles. A period piece would be interesting, but probably not in the development strategy of Gunn and that other guy also in charge of this whose name I never remember.
If any of these characters do put in any appearances, I suspect DC won’t be shy about getting those facsimile reprint editions out on the shelf. I mean, we got a new edition of Metamorpho’s first appearance, as well as a trade of his early appearances. Guy Gardner did have a reprint of his first appeance not too long ago, but didn’t feel like it was part of the Superman promotional push. Mr. Terrific is a little trickier, with his first appearance in Ostrander & Mandrake’s Spectre and is a little harder to single out an issue with a heavy focus on him. We did get a new mini, though.
When it comes to affecting the back issue market, DC movies don’t seem to put a collective finger on the scale quite the same way Marvel movies do. I had a very slight uptick of interest in Superman comics, but it wasn’t consistent. Otherwise, no go, outside the stuff that’s already of interest (like Guy’s first appearance). That’s not to say there probably isn’t someone out there doubling their prices on every appearance of all the characters from the movies, and that there aren’t buyers out there going for it.
This is a little outside the purview of the question, but it’s possible DC prices may increase once supply begins to shrink further, as the stores that bother to carry that backstock become fewer and harder to find. OR prices plummet as the comics from those stores get dumped on the market as those shops die off. Definitely one of those two…come back and check with me about this in a few decades.
Last week I found this link on the mural:
https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/superman-hall-of-justice-mural-every-superhero-explained
I wonder what made Gunn choose these characters? All I could think of was the wish for a broader mix than just white guys in spandix.
P.S. it’s a terrible reflection on *me* but could you please swap pictures 2 and 3 so they’re in historical order?
Hi Mike,
Thanks for answering my question. I hate to nitpick, but you might want to change the order of the mural images you posted so that the second mural segment image is the one that starts with El Diablo, and then the third mural segment image is the one that starts with Liberty Belle, as that is how the chronological order or the characters on the timeline should be. Right now you have those two mural segments in reverse order.
Also, in case anyone is wondering the characters, in order are:
1. Sister Symmetry
2. Silent Knight (an ancestor of the Kent family).
3. Exoristos (an exiled Amazon)
(These three characters might indicate that Gunn intends to do something with The Demon Knights –a Medieval team from the
new 52 publishing era).
4. Black Pirate
5. Miss Liberty
6. Super Chief
7. Whiplash Whirlwind (an alias of Max Mercury)
(Characters indicating the Age of Exploration, the American Revolution, the Indigenous Peoples, and Westward Expansion)
8. El Diablo
9. Hugo Danner–the character from the novel “Gladiator” by Philip
Wylie (which was the inspiration for the creation of Superman); he is also Iron Munro’s father.
10. The Ghost of Flanders
(Characters reflecting the late 19th to early 20th centuries–up until about the 1920s)
11. Sandman
12. Amazing Man
13. Zatara
(Characters from the 1930s and the start of the “Mystery Men” phenomenon)
14. Liberty Belle
15. Bulletman and Bulletgirl
16. Max Mercury
17. TNT and Dan the Dynamite
18. Phantom Lady
(Characters associated with WW II/1940s and the Golden Age of Comics. Perhaps Gunn intends to use the All-Star Squadron in a project?)
19. Atomic Knight
20. Freedom Beast
21. Wildcat
22. Vibe
23. Gunfire
24. Maxwell Lord
(Characters representing the Silver, Bronze,and Copper Ages–although Wildcat is technically a Golden Age character, but maybe we will see Ted Grant training younger heroes in a Gunn project?)
By my count, 10 out of 24 aren’t white guys.
I just cut the pic in half…the way the “rows” are stacked are how they were in that initial picture. The top image was the left half of the picture, the bottom image was the right half.
Maybe James Gunn asked for the most 1990s hero DC had and someone gave him Gunfire (though I can think of plenty more egregious); maybe Gunfire and Maxwell Lord together are James Gunn(fire) and Max “Sean Gunn” Lord. But I hold out hope Gunn was like, “Those New Blood characters were cool. Let’s get one of *those*.” Because that would be awesome.
Atomic knight!
Wait, they were from DC’s FUTURE. An alternate future, I think.
“The Ghost of Flanders”
Stupid Sexy Ghost of Flanders!
“Let’s just see ’em try to do Super Chief.”
Here’s an even less likely one that I WOULD like to see return: Scalphunter!
I *love* that Vibe is up on that wall. He’s such a James Gunn character, ridiculous but also incredibly powerful.
Too bad Vixen’s not included. I’ve always really liked her.
@Snark Shark
I believe there is an issue of DC Comics Presents where it was revealed that the main Atomic Knight character (Gardner Grail?) was a soldier who had been kept in an induced coma in some sort of simulated post-apocalyptic scenario (kind of like in the classic Twilight Zone episode “Where is Everybody?”), and Superman freed him and he became an obscure late ’80s superhero called the Atomic Knight–what should have happened after that would have been for Atomic Knight, Captain Atom, The Atom (and his sword), and Firestorm to form a badass team called “The Nucleus”…just kidding!
Anyway, yeah, in the original Silver–or Atomic–Age stories, The Atomic Knights were a group which formed in the post-apocalyptic 1980s in an alternate timeline.
And that could be great, too, to see Gunn use alternate future timelines for streaming series of films, including, if we are lucky, O.M.A.C. or Kamandi.
Ghost of Flanders is an obscure Quality Comics character who is supposed to be the ghost of a WW I soldier who ends up fighting crime–and most likely also fighting
the Nazis after WW II breaks out. But I think his placement in the mural next to Hugo Danner “The Gladiator” from Philip Wylie’s novel (who pretty much had the power-set of Golden Age Superman–i.e. super strength and can leap great distances), signifies that they were both in WW I. In the Young-All Stars comic from the late ’80s Roy Thomas made it so that Hugo Danner was Iron Munro’s biological father.
Also, “Gladiator”/ Hugo Danner has been adapted to comics at least twice. There was an adaptation in the ’70s in Marvel Preview no. 9 by Roy Thomas and Tony DeZuniga, and also a Wildstorm miniseries adaptation by Howard Chaykin and Russ Heath called “Legend,” which used a sliding timeline so that Danner was a soldier in the Vietnam War instead in WW I. Also, Wylie’s “Gladiator” novel was adapted as a Joe E. Brown comedy film back in 1938 by Columbia Pictures, shortly after Superman first appeared in Action Comics no. 1.
What might be interesting would be a WW I story that ends up featuring Hugo Danner, Ghost of Flanders, Enemy Ace, etc.
As to Scalphunter, I could see the possibility of Gunn doing a “Weird Western Tales” streaming series or Western film franchise where El Diablo, Scalphunter, Jonah Hex, Batlash, Cinnamon, etc., all pop up. If Clint Eastwood made a cameo it would be icing on the cake!
And, in general, DC has so many great characters from different historical timelines: Arion, Arak, Viking Prince, Golden Gladiator, etc. that they should utilize. Maybe we will get a “Demon Knights” film franchise or streaming series with Sister Symmetry, Exoristos, Silent Knight, Etrigan, Vandal Savage, etc.
@Thom H.
Who knows, maybe we will get a riff on classic Justice League Detroit with Vibe, Vixen, etc., set in the ’80s?
“Too bad Vixen’s not included. I’ve always really liked her.”
Me too! She was in much of the original SUICIDE SQUAD run!
“Gunn doing a “Weird Western Tales” streaming series or Western film franchise where El Diablo, Scalphunter, Jonah Hex, Batlash, Cinnamon, ”
That would be cool!
“DC Comics Presents where it was revealed that the main Atomic Knight character (Gardner Grail?) was a soldier who had been kept in an induced coma in some sort of simulated post-apocalyptic scenario”
That does sound familiar, maybe I did hear about that.
“Arak”
OK, how about this: Arak & Scalphuntet Team-Up!
@Snark Shark
Arak takes place around 500 AD, so, if we were to have an Arak/Scalphunter team-up some time travel would have to be involved.
One thing that might be interesting if they were to ever share an adventure would be that they are both instances of cultural assimilation.
Young Arak, who was from the fictitious Quontauka tribe and was originally named Bright-Sky-After-Storm, was discovered floating out at sea in a canoe (as the sole survivor of his tribe) by Vikings and assimilated into the Viking tribe and given the name Eric, which he mispronounced as “Arak.”
Scalphunter–Brian Savage– was a child in Kansas whose family farm was raided by Kiowa Native Americans. He was abducted and assimilated into the tribe and given the name Ke-Woh-No-Tay (“Less Than Human”).
So, if Arak and Scalphunter were ever to meet there could be some interesting discussions between them about each of their sense of identity.
But, yeah, a Weird Western Tales or All-Star Western or whatever could be an interesting idea for a streaming series, and DC probably has a dozen or more Western characters that they could rotate in: Johnny Thunder (the cowboy–not the JSA member); Madame .44; Trigger Twins; Pow-Wow Smith; Jonah Hex; Scalphunter; Bat Lash; El Diablo; Firehair; Nighthawk & Cinnamon; Outlaw; The Roving Ranger; Strong Bow; Matt Savage,Trail Boss; Rodeo Rick–“the Masked Raider”; Wyoming Kid; Cowboy Marshal, Jim Sawyer; Super-Chief; Hawk Haukins–Son of Tomahawk; Don Caballero; Fernando Suarez–El Castigo; Quality Comics Western characters including: Two-Gun Lil; Arizona Raines; and Johnny Lash –The Whip; Fawcett Comics Western characters including: Pistol Packin’ Pattie; Frontier Marshal; and Golden Arrow.
The retconned Atomic Knight–Gardner Grayle–went on to be in the Outsiders at one point.
“The retconned Atomic Knight–Gardner Grayle–went on to be in the Outsiders at one point.”
Oh, wasn’t EVERYONE?
“One thing that might be interesting”
That could work!
And here’s an inter-company idea: Ka-Zar & Warlord!
I loved seeing this mural and the characters he included on it. It hits my Who’s Who sweet spot, so to speak.
One thing I am excited about is the possibility of getting a depiction of the 4th World in THIS DC filmverse. If anyone has read that Gunn doesn’t plan to touch them at all just don’t tell me and let me live in blissful ignorance for a while!
I can totally see even Kirby wackiest ideas working. Plus they wouldn’t have to be desaturated and badassified to fit into the world Gunn has established.
I could totally do without focusing on Darkseid, and instead focus on the elements that haven’t been used to death.
I mean think about it… Cadmus, The Guardian and the Newsboy Legion, the Evil Factory, The Deep Six, Forager, Metron, Transilvane… TRANSILVANE!!!!!!!
It’s a longshot, but I live in a world where I got to see Reed Richards fight Peotr the Soviet orangutan with magnetic powers, so nothing is out of the question.
@LouReedRichards
Who would you cast to play Goody Rickels?
I would love to see an accurate take on The Forever People as cosmic young hippies–maybe Monica Barbaro as Beautiful Dreamer and Timothee Chalamet as Mark Moonrider–since they already played Baez and Dylan together. And I could see Jeff Bridges as Highfather.
Check this out–The Daisy Handbook no. 2, May 1948
–featuring reprinted stories of: Captain Marvel, Robot Man, Red Ryder, Da Vinci, 2-Gun Percy, Rudolph Diesel, Boy Commandos, Ibis, and more!
This may be the very first time that DC and Fawcett (and Dell) characters ever appeared in the same comic–even if the stories are black and white reprints! There is also a story about the making of DC’s The Vigilante serial featuring Ralph Byrd, and some Basil Wolverton slapstick art as well.
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=73280
@ Sean
haha – ok maybe I forgot about good ol’ Goody Rickels!
Would we need to update it to a contemporary comedian, would that even work? I’m not that up on the current comedy scene, any suggestions?
Though I can totally see the tagline of “Don’t Ask, just buy it!” on the movie poster.
@LouReedRichards
It might be entertaining to cast Bill Burr in there in place of Goody Rickels…as “Jagged Burr”…
Also, I could see casting Alan Ritchson as Orion.