I didn’t forget about The Losers, just didn’t have anything to say about it.

§ December 2nd, 2020 § Filed under movie reviews § 26 Comments

Okay, on to the DC Comics films. But first, Thom reminds me that I forgot Into the Spider-Verse, which really is a fantastic film and quite possibly the best of the bunch.

Also, if folks want to leave long ol’ comments on my posts, that’s fine with me! So long as they’re reasonably on-topic, y’know? And everyone has been lately…haven’t had epic-length disturbed rants show up in quite a while. I mean, c’mon, leave those to me.

So, DC Comics movies. Hm. I’d been thinking about how I was going to approach this topic, since there’s definitely a shift in filmmaking between the Christopher Reeve Superman films and, like, Birds of Prey, and my initial instinct is to split them up into different “ages” but, sheesh, that would be too confusing, what industry would do something like that?

The elephant in the room is the Snyder-verse films Man of Steel, Batman V Superman, Justice League, which are pretty divisive among fans. Personally, I generally like them, though I can completely understand why people wouldn’t. The dark tone, the odd choices (jar of urine in my superhero movie? sure, load it up) adding up to productions that seem like the exact opposite of what the characters are about. Well, okay, maybe not Batman, but surely Superman should be bright and cheerful and Henry Cavill has such a winning smile it’s a shame it was barely used.

But I did enjoy this more somber rendition of the characters, while realizing, yeah, maybe a lighter touch might have been more appropriate. So, mixed feelings on these, but generally positive. And I’ve noted that Justice League, while having some of the tone problems of the other pictures, I thought was successful in being a bit more of a cheery adventure. With grave-robbing, sure, and the buckets of “we gotta get that Avengers money” flopsweat, but it was all in good fun. And I have to say, my favorite scene in any modern DC superhero movie is still that fight sequence between a newly revived Superman and the rest of the heroes (particularly as he “slowly” becomes aware of the Flash).

The Snyder-verse-adjacent flicks, Wonder Woman and Aquaman, were more to everyone’s tastes, I’d imagine. Certainly lighter in tone, well, aside from the whole “World War I” thing in WW, but seemed to be more crowd-pleasing than their dour brethren. Of all the films, Aquaman was the one that felt the most Marvel-like, extremely jokey and high in the “we’re having a good time here!” energy. But that was the film, I’ve said before, where I felt like I was seeing the seams in superhero movie-making, where every point felt predictable, every reveal unsurprising. I don’t know, not saying it wasn’t likeable, and that the actors weren’t all watchable and entertaining. Maybe it was just my mood that day, but for whatever reason this film felt more like “product” than the others, like something specifically constructed to get after some of that Marvel money. Maybe I’ll need to rewatch it at some point and see if my opinion improves.

Okay, this is going to go on forever if I keep up all this typing. So:

Shazam – good, still don’t like the Billy/Captain Marvel relationship has been altered to “Tom Hanks in Big” status, but that’s how it is now and I have to live with it. Also hate he’s called “Shazam” now, because I’m a nerd. Anyway, Shazam’s characterization put me off, but I get it’s the “has to learn to be a hero” trope and that’s just how it’s done.

All the Batman movies – the 1966 one is a favorite because Adam West is Best Batman, of course. The Keaton-etc. films were an exercise in diminishing returns, with Keaton’s performances elevating the first two, along with the Tim Burton weirdness. The fourth is goofy fun, brightly colored and very silly and enjoyable on those terms.

The Nolan films may have been better as a duology, but then we wouldn’t have had a million impressions of Bane from the third film, which is just straight-up comedy gold. I remember when the first one had trailers in theaters, folks groaned when they realized it was a Batman film, as the previous movie Batman and Robin was still fresh in everyone’s minds. But that film turned out good (actually convincing you “well, of course he had to dress up as a bat”), but I think the second one is the best. Heath Ledger’s performance as the Joker is one for the ages, and it’s a film about moral ambiguity and moral choices and it’s all amazingly effective.

Of the Reeve Super-films, the first is of course the best…I know people like the second one quite a bit, and it is fun, but I don’t think it’s as…well, well-made as the first. Third is fun and goofy, and the fourth is an abomination. Reeve is great in them all, of course, but I wish he was surrounded by better material. Definitely classic scenes in those first two films, combined with some inexplicable ones (levitate-people-with-your-finger-beam power, Superman’s magic chest-emblem cellophane net).

And there are a few others: Superman Returns, in which Brandon Routh is great, but everything’s too mired in trying to be the Reeve film. Birds of Prey, a fine, and funny, adventure romp which gives Margot Robbie’s Harley Quinn a proper venue. Constantine, which turned out a lot better than it had any reason to be, despite not quite getting the title character right (I mean, beyond the hair and accent). Watchmen, which I adore but recognize it falls apart the farther away it gets from the original plot…great cast, though. Catwoman, which almost seems like it might be okay, at first, but it’s all lies.

And there are others, but let’s get this down to “worst” and “best” so we can all move on with our lives.

WORST is definitely Superman IV, and I say this even though I couldn’t even finish Supergirl. Supergirl at least had the charm of Helen Slater. Superman IV looks like, if I can borrow a phrase from Mystery Science Theater 3000, everyone’s last known photo. It’s cheap looking, it’s unpleasant, it’s made by people who seemingly had contempt for the material. I know Reeve cowrote it or plotted it or something, but it’s dire.

I want to plug Jonah Hex in here too, but folks are rewatching it and finding new entertainment in it, and I’d like to see it again before it vanishes. Suicide Squad wasn’t great, but it had good performances (Will Smith, the aforementioned Robbie) so it may live.

BEST is…well, I think Joker is actually the best-made of the bunch. It holds together as a story, the deterioration of the main character is tragically fascinating, and it just plain looks great. I understand the qualms one could have with it, but maybe that’s part of what makes it so fascinating.

But I think I’d watch The Dark Knight before I’d see Joker again. It’s more fun and a little easier to take. And it’s a little thought-provoking as well, which I appreciate from my funnybook movies.

Now, like I did with the Spider-Verse movie, I left out the animated feature films (and I’ve seen them all!). And I still want to say Return of Swamp Thing is my favorite. Do any of these other movies have Swamp Thing driving a jeep with Heather Locklear? I submit to you, dear reader, that no they do not.

26 Responses to “I didn’t forget about The Losers, just didn’t have anything to say about it.”

  • Gareth Wilson says:

    “The Nolan films may have been better as a duology, but then we wouldn’t have had a million impressions of Bane from the third film, which is just straight-up comedy gold.”

    I was testing the PA system for a high school sports event a while ago. So I said “Gotham, take control. Take control of your city,” broadcasting it over the entire field. No-one got it.

  • Billy says:

    Superman III is the best Superman movie. I will die on this hill!

    Supey fights himself, the one lady turns into a cyborg and her skin peels off (man that did a number on lil’ Billy) and Richard Pryor!

  • Daniel says:

    I think the DC films, when they’re good, are the best super-hero films out there. But when they’re bad, they are amongst the worst films ever made (super-hero or otherwise).

    I love the Zack Snyder DC films. As a Gen-Xer who grew up in the 1980s, his films perfectly capture the deconstructionist approach of DC’s best material during their best decade (TDKR, Watchmen, Batman: Year One, Ronin, Longbow Hunters, The Man of Steel, Perez’s WW, Hawkworld). So the people who say that Snyder doesn’t understand these characters, or that he’s betraying the core essence of these characters, are being willfully ignorant of these characters’ histories on the printed page.

    Watchman B+
    I didn’t like this film at first because I found it to be too superficially faithful to the source material. But after watching the Director’s Cut (with Snyder, you ALWAYS have to watch the Director’s Cut), I’ve grown to like it more and more. I still think it’s too faithful to the book, but I’ve accepted that that was the filmmaker’s intention and appreciate it on those terms. It’s also stunningly beautiful.

    Man of Steel A
    Terrific film. The first time that I feel that an artist has approached the Superman material logically (if a god-like being actually showed up, what would that be like?). And to me, that’s far more interesting than the avuncular, neutered version of the character that DC has published since the 1950s (minus the Byrne years, which I think this film owes a huge debt to). I also like how Snyder fully leaned into the Jesus metaphor by structuring his entire trilogy around the stages of Jesus’ life (Film 1: Birth. Film 2: Death. Film 3: Resurrection). Also: Superman has killed before this film. In fact he’s killed Zod twice (in John Byrne’s last issue of his 1980s run on the character, and at the end of Superman II). People may not like that he kills (Hint: You’re not supposed to like that he kills. The character doesn’t like that he kills), but don’t pretend that what Snyder did was unprecedented, because it’s not.

    BvS (Director’s Cut) A+
    The best super-hero film ever made. The theatrical cut was fine, but the Director’s Cut is terrific. Again, building on the structure of the Jesus story, while also layering in sophisticated political commentary (Superman is an analog for Obama (the “other” trying to do good for a society that rejects him for his otherness) and Batman is an analog for Dick Cheney (someone who became fearful, angry, and vengeful after a 9/11-style attack)). People can mock me all they want, but what Snyder did with his trilogy (presuming that his Director’s Cut of JL is of comparable quality to MoS and BvS) is akin to what Coppola did for gangster movies with The Godfather Trilogy.

    Justice League (Incomplete Grade)
    I’ll reserve judgment on this until after the Snyder Cut is released next year. As it is, the theatrical cut is one of the worst films I’ve ever seen, but it’s also not Snyder’s film.

    Snyder Adjacent

    Wonder Woman A-
    Terrific film. But those who claim that this is somehow lighter than (visually and tonally) as well as a rebuke of the Snyder approach just aren’t watching the film. Aside from the opening 15 minutes or so on Paradise Island, the rest of the film is as visually cold and dark as the Snyder films. I happen to like that aesthetic (again, I grew up on ’80s comics), but to claim that WW is somehow different is just disingenuous. Also, she’s a brutal killer in the film (killing German soldiers on Paradise Island; decapitating German soldiers in Europe; stabbing Danny Huston to death in cold blood). I have no problem with that (it’s consistent with who the film establishes her to be), but for some people to ignore that while complaining about Superman and Batman killing in the Snyder films is hypocritical to the highest degree.

    Aquaman D+
    A terrible, terrible film. Such an obvious and desperate attempt to make a movie exactly like Marvel, and so poorly done.

    Suicide Squad F
    One of the worst films I’ve ever seen. Ever.

    Birds of Prey D-
    The kindest thing that I can say about BoP is that it’s better than Suicide Squad. But that’s not saying much.

    Joker A
    Absolutely terrific film. Again, like the Snyder films, this perfectly captures the tone and themes of what DC was doing in their printed work back in the 1980s.

    The Dark Knight Trilogy
    I really, really liked these films when they came out. I still like them, but I’ve cooled on them a bit.

    Batman Begins B+
    The first half of the film before Bruce Wayne becomes Batman is great. The second half of the film, after he becomes Batman is less great and, at times, kinda goofy. But I still like it.

    The Dark Knight A
    This film is much more flawed than most people will acknowledge with stunning lapses in logic. Example: In the beginning, the Joker’s escape from the bank heist in a school bus is coordinated to exact second to coincide with a parade of school buses that just happens to be passing by at that exact moment. For a “realistic” film, there are many, many examples of convenient narrative coincidences like this throughout the movie. Nevertheless, the good parts of the film outweigh the not so good parts by an extraordinary margin, and when it’s good it’s great.

    The Dark Knight Rises A-
    I like this film a lot more than most people. Still too many convenient coincidences in the narrative, but overall a terrific film.

    Superman Returns A-
    I like this film in spite of the fact that it keeps getting in the way of itself. First of all, it’s a beautiful, melancholy, elegiac film. Beautifully photographed with a mournful musical score and some terrific performances. But the movie can never decide if it wants to be a sequel to or a remake of the Christopher Reeve films, so it keeps splitting the difference. As a sequel it’s terrible since it simply repeats much of the first Reeve film. But as a remake (where telling the same story again but differently is the very definition of a remake) it’s quite good and (dare I say it) better than the Reeve films. So I view it as a mostly successful remake of the Reeve films and enjoy very much from that perspective.

    Green Lantern C-
    The very definition of mediocre. Not as bad as most people say, but also not good by any measure.

    Batman 1989 B
    Take the first 30 minutes of this film and end it with the Joker’s hand rising from the chemical pool and this is the greatest short film ever made. The rest of the film, though, is just too uneven. It’s a beautiful film (I love Tim Burton’s visuals), but there’s too much Nicholson, and the structure is too ping-pongy, going back and forth between Joker and Batman. But despite all this, it still mostly holds up. And every time I watch it I lament the fact that we never got to see Billy Dee Williams as Two-Face in a third Burton film.

    Batman Returns B+
    I used to absolutely love this film and considered it to be the best super-hero film ever. It’s still pretty great, it’s just that so many better super-hero films have come out since then. Probably Burton’s second or third best film after Sleepy Hollow and Sweeney Todd.

    Batman Forever C-
    (See also: Green Lantern in regards to mediocrity)

    Batman & Robin F
    This film, Suicide Squad, and Superman IV are the three worst films ever made. Ever.

    Superman B
    I grew up with this film. I have a great nostalgic affection for it. But viewing it objectively, it’s not that great. Its structure is choppy (the first hour of the film has nothing to do with the rest of the film), it makes no attempt to be logical, and as charming as Reeve is in the film, if you think about it for more than 10 seconds he’s a complete and total sociopath (he flat out lies to Lois over and over again, once after flat out telling her that he never lies). It’s charming and fun on a superficial level, but it hasn’t aged well.

    Superman II B+
    This has the same flaws as the first film, but its narrative structure is much more integrated. Still huge lapses in logic throughout, but for what it is it works. And despite the VFX showing their age, that Battle of Metropolis sequence still holds up really well. Also, while I am generally in favor of Director’s Cuts, the Donner Cut of this film is unwatchably bad.

    Superman III C-
    Like Green Lantern, the very definition of mediocre. Not as bad as some claim, but also not particularly good. The Smallville scenes between Lana and Clark work really well though.

    Superman IV
    Hands down, the worst film ever made.

    Terrible film, but like Mike said, at least Helen Slater is charming in it.

    Batman 1966 C-
    I just can’t get on the revisionist bandwagon when it comes to the Adam West Batman. I’m not opposed to a funny Batman and Robin, but the joke wears thin really, really fast. And I really, really dislike the garishly colored visual aesthetic of the mid- to late-1960s.

    Never saw any of the Swamp Thing movies (sorry). Also never saw Catwoman, The Losers, Steel, or Jonah Hex.

  • Thom H. says:

    Batman & Robin is hilariously bad. I never tire of quoting Alicia Silverstone: “Bruce, it’s me, Barbara. I’m Batgirl!” Just the laziest way for them to write that big reveal.

    It’s also fascinating to watch the film knowing that Silverstone and O’Donnell were about to hit all-time lows in their film careers. I like both of them and wish them no ill will, but Batman & Robin was like the coke-fueled, all-night party before the massive hangover that was the next few years of their careers.

  • Daniel T says:

    Superman absolutely does not kill Zod in Superman II.

    It would never have happened because you always have to fight the Big Boss at the end, but I think Wonder Woman would have been much more effective if Diana had realized that Ares had nothing to do with the war and it happened just because people suck.

  • Turan, Emissary of the Fly World says:

    Re: “Constantine” not getting the character’s hair and accent right… I may have posted this here before, but I will run the risk of repeating myself.

    I have seen speculation that the changes in the character were deliberate. Rick Veitch, who drew Constantine’s first appearance, always admitted happily in interviews that he had based his appearance on Sting (I suppose that, around these parts, I have to make clear that this means the rock star, not the wrestler). The theory is that, while Sting may have tolerated the appropriation of his image in a comic that was read by thousands, he would not have been happy to see this repeated in a movie seen by millions (or, another approach: he may not even have been aware of the comic, but he was bound to hear of the movie). So, to avoid lawsuits, the producers of the movie made sure that the character no longer looked or sounded anything like Sting.

    This has a surface plausibility, but the theory has a fatal flaw. The problem of making Constantine unlike Sting would be solved in any event, simply by casting anyone other than Sting. I recall that, in the fannish discussions of the time, the favored fantasy casting was either Ewan McGregor or Jude Law. Well, if either of them had cast, then Constantine would have been a man who looked and sounded like Ewan McGregor or Jude Law. Problem solved. No, the casting of Keanu Reaves was almost certainly due to nothing more than the producers wanting the biggest name they could get.

    One qualification to that: It is, after all, the purpose of a legal department to point out potential problems, so perhaps someone did compose a memo explaining why making Constantine a blond Englishman would be inviting trouble. This, however, is unlikely to have been decisive.

  • Turan, Emissary of the Fly World says:

    Daniel: Tim Burton’s best film is BIG FISH, followed by BIG EYES.

    Maybe he should look into making a new version of THE BIG SLEEP.

  • Robcat says:

    1- I love the Losers movie. No point. I just wanted it on record.

    2- I seem to recall reading an interview with Sting and he LOVED that they drew Constantine like him. However, I am not going to spend time looking for the interview. Maybe I saw it in Comic Urban Legends Revealed.

    3- Ok, Mike. I am with you on Superman 2. It became super-obvious that halfway through production they canned Richard Donner and Geoff Johns, who both respected and knew Superman, and gave it to Richard Lester , who made the Beatles movies (great for what they were), the 3 Musketeers, and whose idea of a Superhero was… who knows? ((I think it was worse than switching Snyder for Whedon.) However, Michael Thau brought together what Donner filmed, lost footage he filmed, an audition, and faked a little here and there, and we have Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut. It is great. Yes, they end up reusing the end of Superman The Movie, but as the films we made simultaneously, and they were running out of time, the “turn time back” ending was actually planned for SII. They just we’re running out of time, switched II’s ending to I, figuring after I came out they would have time to come up with a new ending for II. Aaaaanyway, I liked Donner. It better than S:TM because you’ve got the origin story out of the way and can move on to Superman being Superman. Give it a try!

  • ScienceGiant says:

    I am impressed. We swore never to speak of Green Lantern again and we are holding true to our word.

    Although I am curious: we are discussing cinematic universes. Will we discuss live-action television next?

  • DavidG says:

    So, my 2c on DC, in clumps.

    Donner/Lester Superman: ok, but showing their age, and the pacing is dull. Not sure I made it to the end of IV. Reeves was charming though. Even when I was 10 I thought the time reverse thing was lame.

    Burton Batman: loved them at the time, still think Keaton was an excellent Batman and Bruce Wayne, they have not aged fantastically well, but enjoyable. Cramming 2 villains into every movie was a mistake.

    Schumacher Batman: much as I like a lighter touch in my superhero movies, these are stupid and dull. Disliked them on release, dislike them now. Caught some of Batman and Robin on tv the other day, and was mildly appalled.

    Nolan Batman: wildly overrated, all of them are way too long, and feature some exceptionally stupid moments. Why does the whole Gotham police force go into the sewers? None of them have interested me enough to watch. Ore than once. That said, Heath Ledger is truly fantastic as the Joker, possibly the best performance by anyone in a superhero movie.

    Green Lantern: very accurately described above as mediocre. Like a lot of recent DC movies the third act is terrible, with a dull fight against a dull villain.

    WW: also overrated. Gal Gadot is great, but the material is not worthy of her. The collection of racial stereotypes fighting WW1 with her is embarrassing, the villain and final fight is dull, and again there is some criminal stupid (when she crosses no mans land with her shield why doesn’t anyone shoot at her unprotected legs?).

    Aquaman: agree that this is a Marvel wannabe, but it was fun, although the big battle at the end was another lame DC third act. Nicole Kidman was extraordinarily terrible.

    Shazam: fun, but forgettable.

    Superman Returns: I know I saw it, but it has made zero impact on me, other than thinking that Kate Bosworth was miscast. Forgettable in the true sense of the word.

    Snyder movies: thought the casting was generally great, but really don’t like these movies at all. Don’t like the murky tones, the excessive seriousness, and Cavill in particular is wasted. He’s a charming guy whose charm is buried to the point where he’s not very likable. Superman can be dark, but he is essentially likable. Or at least he should be. The Jesus metaphor doesn’t work for me at all, I get what Snyder is trying to do, but it’s all so labored. Snyder doesn’t do subtlety well, the worst bits of Watchmen are when he over eggs the pudding.

    Watchmen: still very fond of this, and I like the look and the fidelity to the source material – the bits that deviate from it are the worst (the space squid makes more sense than using Manhattens energy signature, which would just be seen as a US attack by everyone). Again, excellent casting, except for Ozymandius, who is awful.

  • Turan, Emissary of the Fly World says:

    ScienceGiant: Sure, we can discuss live-action television universes. Where do you want to start? The St. Elsewhere universe? The John Munch universe? The “Green Acres”/”Petticoat Junction”/”Beverly Hillbillies” universe? Or the universe that was created that time NBC had all its Thursday night shows cross over–a universe that, oddly, includes “The Dick Van Dyke Show” and maybe “The Addams Family” (in which case it also includes Scooby-Doo, Josie and the Pussycats, and Batman)?

  • Turan, Emissary of the Fly World says:

    Mind, I do not think that George Clooney and Noah Wyle were actually playing their “ER” characters when they appeared on “Friends,” given that one show was set in Chicago and the other in New York.

  • Turan, Emissary of the Fly World says:

    Oh, and how did I forget the greatest of all TV shared universes: “Star Wars”/”The Muppet Show”/”Doctor Who”?

  • Turan, Emissary of the Fly World says:

    I probably should have included links with the last post:



  • Chris G says:

    Word of mouth on the Snyder movies was so bad I’ve never watched them, and don’t regret that for a second, so the first time I ever saw Henry Cavill in anything was Enola Holmes. And, well, when I say that his performance made me understand why Snyder cast him, I don’t intend that as a compliment.

  • Thom H. says:

    “Caught some of Batman and Robin on tv the other day, and was mildly appalled.”

    That made me laugh out loud. Perfect way to describe it.

  • CalvinPitt says:

    I don’t really have many opinions on the Christopher Reeve Superman films. They’re fine, the ones I’ve seen.

    I haven’t seen Aquaman, Shazam, Superman Returns, Green Lantern, or Man of Steel.

    Justice League was dreary garbage, so was Batman vs. Superman. And having been convinced to watch Sucker Punch by a friend of my, I can confidently say I wouldn’t trust Snyder to direct a local chain liquor store commercial, let alone a big-budget blockbuster movie.

    I liked Wonder Woman well enough, except for the big CGI fight scene at the end, which felt like an entirely different movie got stapled on. One directed by Zack Snyder, probably.

    Like I said in the last post, Mask of the Phantasm is still my favorite Batman movie. I’m sure my affection for the Burton films is at least partially nostalgia, but there’s a weirdness to them I prefer to Nolan’s attempts to kind of strip the wonder out of everything and make a passing attempt at realism.

    I would still throw the Joel Schumacher Batman films into a fire.

  • CalvinPitt says:

    I left a sentence out of that paragraph about Batman movies. It reads like I’m saying Mask of the Phantasm was a Tim Burton movie.

    After Mask of the Phantasm, my list goes Burton movies, Nolan movies, Schumacher movies.

  • Jack says:

    For me, the DC movies are pretty much this: Dark Knight is fantastic, then there’s everything else.

    That’s facetious, I know, but on my personal list Dark Knight is so far above the others its competition isn’t superhero movies, it’s every movie I’ve ever loved. Batman Begins is great, the last is flawed but somehow pulls off the neat trick of making a trilogy when they likely didn’t MEAN to. Dark Knight, though, is so good that its flaws (and it has them) only hit me much later.

    The Reeve movies: I am old enough to have seen the first one in theaters, and while watching it today it has that whiff of 1970s film making, it still largely holds up today. The second one cruises by on nostalgia, and as an adult the forced comedy really grates. The less said about the last two, the better. And I might as well include Superman Returns here, because it was a love letter to the first two, and while it worked as that, it didn’t work well as a superhero movie. And a LOT of the response to it is coming up later in this post.

    The Burton/Schumacher movies: It’s worth mentioning that the only movie I saw in theaters more than Batman (four times) was Star Wars (eight times, and it wasn’t A New Hope when I saw it, get off my yard.) 1989 Batmania was a thing. Problem is, the Burton movies, especially the first, aged POORLY. Batman Forever these days is the one that has aged the least-it was more of a comic book story, told comic style, but the villains just devour the scenery to the film’s detriment. And I’m likely never going to be old enough that Batman and Robin comes around to so bad it’s good.

    The Snyder movies: okay, for starters, I’m going to say that I unabashedly love Man of Steel. It’s flawed in a lot of ways, but it is, in fact, the response to all of the criticism of Superman Returns. “We want a Superman movie where he fights villains and does stuff, not just catch airplanes and lift big things!” was all the rage back when that came out. And for better or worse, Snyder gave us that. He even gave us the city-wrecking battle between superhumans that Superman II could only hint at and undercut with comedy. Man of Steel should have been a great story about how Clark Kent learned to become Superman, where the complaints about the violence of the story could have been dealt with as lessons in becoming the Superman who never kills and tries to save everyone.

    (I never had a problem with Superman killing Zod. Superman’s been killing Zod forever. It’s kind of a thing.)

    The problem was, instead of making a movie where Superman became the hero we know, we got Batman v Superman, which so fundamentally misunderstood both characters that it fell on its face. The only credit I give Justice League is that finally we got a Superman that felt like he’d learned how to BE Superman. And now we’re getting the Snyder cut to ruin that.

    Wonder Woman is great, largely carried by the chemistry between Gal Gadot and Chris Pine, Aquaman really IS DC trying to make a Marvel movie, and Shazam never appealed to me in the first place, so I never saw it. Nor did I see Suicide Squad or Birds of Prey.

    And we don’t speak of Green Lantern in this house.

  • Jack says:

    Oh, and while I saw Watchmen and generally liked it, Watchmen is so much it’s own thing that I really, despite it BEING a DC Comic, don’t lump it in with the rest of the DC movies. I am aware that I am utterly wrong here, and yet I still do it.

  • @misterjayem says:

    I prefer the comics.

    — MrJM

  • Snark Shark says:

    “and the fourth is an abomination.”

    It TRULY is. Though the 90’s Captain America TV movie gave it a run for it’s (lack of) money!


    That movie is a good part of why I CAN’T STAND KEENU REEVES.


    It’s NOT GOOD, but I don’t have it. It’s like the Plan 9 from Outer Space of superhero movies!

  • Snark Shark says:

    There was a LOSERS movie? Where, When, Why, and How?

  • Turan, Emissary of the Fly World says:

    Snark Shark, it came out back in 1974. Gregory Peck played Captain Storm, Robert Forster played Johnny Cloud, Don Johnson was Gunner, and Telly Savalas played Sarge. It’s okay.

  • DavidG says:

    There was also a Losers movie in 2010, based on the reboot series. I didn’t make it to the end, but it was basically the A Team with more graphic violence.

  • Snark Shark says:

    1) thank u for you answers, Turan & David!

    2) back in `74? AND in 2010? And I never heard of either! I think they didn’t advertise those enough.

    3) The movie DC SHOULD’VE made back in the 70’s is Jonah Hex, starring Clint Eastwood. Such a lost opportunity.