I don’t think I’ve ever seen them referred to as “the little reptiles” before.
Hi pals! Okay, going back to that March 1986 Bud Plant catalog and looking at the second page of those ordering recommendations for comics retailers. (Reminder: I had some brief follow-ups on that first post here.)
Now I have lots of these old catalogs. I can keep doing this for weeks, but I know that would drive you all crazy, and me as well. I do plan on dipping into these on a semi-regular basis as I find them fascinating looks into comics retailing history, and sort of nudge my own brain cells a bit to remember how some of this stuff played out. (Or I bug my former boss Ralph, from whence these catalogs came, to see if he remembers.)
I know we seemed to have plenty of these in backstock, and they would sell out of the bins occasionally, but I can’t say for sure if they flew off the new comic rack upon release. The initial rush of Turtlemania had slowed a bit by this point, so I don’t think throwing a Donatello or whathaveyou into just any book equaled Big Sales Numbers. Yes, look for your follow-up on this once I pester Ralph about it.
I really wanted more March Hare than what we got. Sadly, a #2 was never to be. (I write a little about it here in this obituary for Keith Giffen.)
T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents is one of those properties that holds strong sway over the folks who remember (or have sought out via back issue bins) the original series and its handful of tie-ins, primarily inspired by the great artwork of Wally Wood and others. However, most attempted revivals seems to fall flat on their faces…I think DC and IDW were the latest attempts? It’s hard to keep track.
There were a lot of shenanigans regarding ownership of the property in the 1980s, such as what was going on with this very series noted in the above tip. That sixth Deluxe issue was never released.
Ouch. There was a time when giants of the past were not appreciated in the then-present, like Kirby and Ditko. It’s hard to tell exactly the tone of the tipster here, whether the world would not appreciate Ditko drawing Daredevil, or whether Ditko’s style as it was then did not suit the character.
Eh, I don’t know, looks okay to me (inks by Klaus Janson):
Okay, now this remains a very popular issue, almost just for that awesome cover alone. When that was available as a poster, it was like printing money. If Marvel’s listening (and their ears are everywhere — ew, gross) let me just say two words: FACSIMILE EDITION.
I mean, just look at this thing:
I cut that one off because the he does go into several solid reasons why the Classic X-Men reprint comic was a good idea, but that can be a whole other post on its own. Rather, I wanted to note the reference ot the Dreadstar reprints from the period, and I want to make sure I track down his comments on that because I can guess what he said. SPOILER: retailers and distributors weren’t thrilled with the Dreadstar reprints…not because of the contents, which are fine, but because of Marvel’s apparent “crowd out the competition” publishing strategy. You can read about it in Comics Journal #97 (where you’ll find a mention of my old boss Ralph in there).
While not getting the same attention as Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles et al., I feel like Miami Mice is one of the better-regarded of that subgenre of the blank and white book, the “funny animal parody” comic. I mean, it was published by Rip Off Press, one of the classic underground companies, and appealingly cartooned by Mark Bodé. I’ve even sold copies of this out of my shop relatively recently.
I…I, um…that’s hard to say, honestly. One more question for Ralph: were people excited about the whole “New Universe” endeavor from Marvel at the start, or was it a whole lotta “oh, now what?” Like, was there enough interest to bump up sales on magazines with behind the scenes secrets and info like Comics Interview?
Just checked my own ‘zine collection, and I don’t have a Comics Interview #33 in there, but I do have #36, which has a big “NEW UNIVERSE” banner across the top of the front cover. So I guess there was enough interest to double-dip on the topic!
And speaking of double-dipping on topics, I’ll probably check out another one of these tips columns soon. Consider yourself forewarned!
It is too bad that we never got a March Hare no. 2 or a T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents no. 6 from David Singer’s Deluxe and Lodestone Comics imprints, but I think the story was that he overextended his credit (and he was also paying top dollar to get George Perez, Dave Cockrum, Keith Griffin, Murphy Anderson, Jerry Ordway, etc. to draw those T-Agents stories) and went bankrupt, like Pacific Comics before him–also, he was being sued by John Carbonaro for copyright infringement for using the T-Agents without Carbonaro’s consent.
In terms of capturing a bit of the light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek Cold War spy satire glory of the Wally Wood-era T-Agents, I actually find JC Comics (Carbonaro’s short-lived 1980s comic company, with the backing of Archie Comics) two issues of T-Agents to be quite fun reads–and the artwork by Lou Manna and Paul Bonanno, inked by Willie Blyberg, is very Wood-esque. That JC Comics T-Agents story arc was concluded in Archie Comics’ Blue Ribbon Comics no. 12. All of those issues can tracked down for a few dollars.
The Deluxe Comics Wally Wood’s T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents run was pretty good as well, but disappointing due to unresolved stories since the series was cancelled. (On a side note, it was also a bummer that Dave Cockrum’s Futurians only got a handful of issues published by Singer before his imprints went belly up).
DC’s iteration of the T-Agents was by far the worst–due to Nick Spencer’s lame take on the concept (in which he had most of the original characters killed off and replaced by boring cyphers…and he totally missed the point of what made the T-Agents as envisioned by Wally Wood an engaging team). The IDW iteration of team was better than the DC iteration, but, again, a lot of elements were changed. I would love to see whoever owns that IP let Steve Skeats write sone new T-Agents stories (as he wrote several for Wood back in the day), or get Doug Moench, or Gerry Conway to write some stories and Jerry Ordway to draw them.
It is sad that by the ’80s Ditko’s art was already considered out of fashion, but even so, he did a lot of good work in the ’80s, including on ROM, inked by P. Craig Russell–also, Ditko’s art on The Fly for Archie Comics 1980s revival was really
great.
I seem to recall that the New Universe lost steam really quickly, with only Starbrand and a few other titles having any staying power beyond a year or so–it was almost like the Atlas/Seaboard situation, but slightly longer-lived.
Interestingly, to me – Dreadstar & Co. either were the introduction of Dreadstar or the only means of catching up on the series after reading/buying later issues (around #8/9/10 or slightly later, but not beyond #14/15 or so).
If not for the newsstand reprints, I do not believe Dreadstar would have lasted till #28 or migrated to First Comics.
What the retailers/distributors of the time never considered was the long term situation of titles maybe.
The Journal article has shops hoarding 500/1000 copies of early Dreadstar!
Also mentioning Cerebus reprints via Swords of Cerebus.
Alas, little to none of that reached S.E.A. in the early 80s, only intermittent/irregular sub copies after mid-80s.
The Cerebus biweekly reprints were how I bought and read early Cerebus after missing out on Cerebus (I impulsively bought Square One-Cerebus #112/113 for unremembered reasons) and High Society phonebook I bought later on. Only Church & State I have never actually bought/read (I think I bought Cerebus #112/113~#300 semi-continuosly but no longer have the floppies, maybe only High Society pb somewhere)
Contrast with New Universe which was available here but didn’t last. Would today’s trade strategy reprinting 6 issues soon after publication prolonged its longevity?
And DC’s Watchmen (or Camelot 3000/Dark Knight) wasn’t hoarded 500/1000 copies, right? Even though the reception to the hc/sc reprints weren’t bad?
I was a kid at the time of new universe and i was excited by the launch of it. i think the only series i actually read all the way through was spitfire because of the mech aspect of it. when the issues came out i thought they were too similar to other comics so dropped them in favor of the “originals.”
Not only did the New Universe fail, but its failure failed to discourage Archie Goodwin from launching the Epic Comics ‘Shadowline’ universe, only a year or two later, which also failed.
Those are good Daredevil panels but I see much more Janson in them than Ditko.
This is a good reminder to seek out the original T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents series. The Wally Wood art I’ve seen so far is gorgeous. I wouldn’t mind seeing the later George Perez and Keith Giffen versions, either.
I totally remember that Captain America annual. I have a vague recollection that it was the beginning of — or a significant entry in — the “vibranium v. adamantium” debate.
The New Universe did not excite me at all. Maybe I was already buying enough Marvel series at the time? Or I was more interested in exploring the DC universe after Crisis? I do recall being turned off by most of the art. It seemed like the worst of the Marvel house style at the time. I was mildly intrigued when John Byrne took over Star Brand, but by that time it really didn’t seem like the line was going to stick around much longer.
I was suckered into buying the first issues of the Shadowline titles. The Sienkiewicz covers were so pretty, and I was obsessed with his work after his stint on New Mutants. But the interiors didn’t live up to that promise.
I remember being very excited about the New Universe. Shooter was promising us we’d all be in on the ground level of the biggest thing! I bought every number 1! I…can’t remember how many number 2s I bought…
In my defense, I was rather young.
Personally, I love seeing things like this. I wish I still had copies of the old Styx Distributors Catalog from the early 1990s.
Yeah, my recollection is that the New Universe had a good amount of excitement clustered around it initially–it was teased as coming directly out of Secret Wars II, which while not great at least did have a large readership.
The excitement probably peaked with that first full-page teaser ad in all the Marvel books showing nothing but a big pink lightning bolt and “Expect the Unexpected”… then dissipated almost instantly when the first issues of the books actually came out and the ‘unexpected’ turned out to be mostly mediocre and forgettable, when not actively awful.
Once the second and third issues hit and it was clear few of the books would sustain consistent creative teams, even the true believers cut their losses. But hey, guess it all led to that Hickman Avengers run decades later, right?
@Thom H.
One thing to bear in mind about the original T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents run from Tower Comics is that it was a product of its time (1960s)–so, although most of the Wally Wood-drawn stories are beautiful eye candy (and there is also great art in some of those stories by Reed Crandall, Steve Ditko, Gil Kane, Dan Adkins, Chic Stone, George Tuska, Ogden Whitney, and others), there are also some examples of negative stereotypes in terms of how some of the Communist Chinese villains are depicted. But Wood really had a knack for making Len Brown (T-Agent Dynamo), a sort of good-hearted but not super bright himbo who was torn between his desire for the bad girl Iron Maiden (essentially she was his Catwoman) and for Alice, the good girl T-Agents secretary. So, in a sense, Wood took elements of the Golden Age Superman (in terms if Dynamo’s power set), and of Will Eisner’s Denny Colt/The Spirit (in terms of Dynamo being able to take a beat down at the hands of the villains, but also turning all the women on–be they villainous Femme Fatales or virtuous Polly Purehearts). This made the T-Agents books a bit more humorous and provocative than the standard DC and Marvel comics of the ’60s.
Also, the T-Squad had non-powered agents a la The Man From U.N.C.L.E., including Weed (who was loosely based on Wood–and may have been naked “Weed”because he smoked weed?). There was also Kitten–who was like a Honey West knock-off. And this was all during that era of Mission Impossible, Get Smart, I Spy, The Avengers (John Steed and Emma Peel) and all the other Cold War-era spy shows. Also, Manny Stallman drew some interesting Raven solo stories.
Re: The Deluxe Comics iteration of T-Agents, just so you know, Perez only drew the covers and several short solo stories featuring T-Agent Raven, and Giffin only drew several short solo stories featuring T-Agent Lightning, and T-Agent Menthor II–the original Menthor had already been killed off in the ’60s. The actual team stories were drawn by Dave Cockrum and Murphy Anderson, and then Rich Buckler, and then Jerry Ordway. But I still suggest tracking down all five issues, they are usually pretty inexpensive.
Re: Shadowline–I think it was better than the New Universe and there are less issues to buy to complete the run of that sub-imprint. Although, I do wonder what the outcome might have been if Jim Shooter had saved his New Universe ideas until he launched Valiant…would any of those characters have thrived there?
* …not “naked” “Weed”–named “Weed”–verdammt autocorrect!
There was an interview with Jim Shooter years ago, I think on Newsarama, where he explained they were given a generous budget for the New Universe, then three months into planning were told the budget was drastically cut and all the house ads with the pink lightning came out of that budget. So it was launched on nothing, with editors writing the stories and newish or regular artists squeezing it into their schedule, and crashed and burned on that basis. Which seemed believable because why else would they hype it so much then launch with such forgettable work?
I love seeing this stuff! Keep it coming.
I am pretty sure the Daredevil reference is because the Ditko issue was immediately after Born Again concluded. Just so tonally different that I am sure many folks dropped DD at that point. It didn’t help that the stories in the two Ditko issues were fill-ins. One had him fighting Madcap, for gosh sakes.
@Sean: Some of the art I’ve seen from T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents is actually from Reed Crandall, I think. There’s something about it I really love — probably the moody inking. Anyway, thanks for the heads up and the recommendations!
@Thom H
You might find these links about Crandall and his career in comics to be of interest. He was definitely a gifted artist. Whenever I come across an EC Comics reprint or issues of Creepy or Eerie that features his art I buy them. He also drew a couple of issue of Flash Gordon for King Comics that are worth tracking down. And his Golden Age Blackhawk, Doll Man, etc. stories for Quality Comics are really cool.
https://youtu.be/NhLzLM-OZ0A?si=LVYPxsppd6qblPrQ
https://comicbookhistorians.com/the-importance-of-reed-crandall-by-alex-grand-2/
Wow — Crandall had quite the career. I’m going to look out for his work from now on. Unfortunately, he had the same retirement plan as so many comic creators: absolutely none. What a sad end to his life.
@ Thom H.
Yes, it was a sad end to Crandall’s life.
Wally Wood’s end was even sadder…
But at least their brilliance survives in their work…
“Okay, now this remains a very popular issue”
hell yeah!!
“It is sad that by the ’80s Ditko’s art was already considered out of fashion, but even so, he did a lot of good work in the ’80s, including on ROM, inked by P. Craig Russell”
That stuff I enjoy quite a bit! The DD art looks a bit out-of-place, as DD was rather grim by that point (mainly because of Miller’s work), and this looks a little too happy.
@ Snark Shark
Klaus Janson tends to ink in a manner that “Jansonizes” most pencilers drawings, but you can still sense the Ditko in those drawings by the grandiose leap Daredevil is taking in the first panel, the classic “Ditko fingers” on the figures, and the manic energy of the people Daredevil is observing in the last panel. One thing Jim Shooter should totally be commended on was that he always gave Ditko work, even if Ditko’s style had been superceded by the styles of Byrne, Miller, Perez et al by the ’80s.
” you can still sense the Ditko in those drawings”.
I agree, he has a looseness in bodily movement that’s noticeable. Still an odd combi though. Whereas Janson works with Frank Miller’s art quite well!